Is INavX the best for an IPad?

[Rollergirl]

You are completely right, Russell. Unfortunately, for many people that's not important.

I'm an Instructor for the North River Power Squadron in Manhattan, and last year we put together a seminar on Ipad navigation. The seminar addressed navigation fundamentals, evaluation of a sailors requirements for their own type of use and a way to evaluate the software. We looked at hardware requirements, phone based "GPS" verses the satellite positions and other factors. Our most important point: Could you work your system in an emergency?

About one-third of the class agreed they had learned something, and that the seminar would influence their decision about picking a navigation system.

The others seemed unimpressed. They already knew their phone or pad was sufficient, that they would never encounter an emergency situation or that they just day-sail in a familiar area and enjoy the email/video/phone capabilities of their device. Besides, who would pay more for something (a chart-plotter) with no email capacity?

What I took away was that most of these people were so satisfied by their use of the phone/pad for the rest of their life enhancement that they could not imagine it letting them down.

Most of my recent students tell me they can look up almost anything on the internet. This means that if they get into a tough situation, they can look up the solution. The danger is not real to them. They have never been in trouble before.

What i left out of the story is that later John Berg would tell Latitude 38 that all he had to do was turn hard left when his navigation failed, and put out to sea until he sorted things out. But he stayed fixed on his screen to the exclusion of his reality.

[adamganz]

Two questions:

If I want to use Navionics or another iPad-based navigation app beyond cell range, can I use an iPad with internal GPS (which happens to be the iPad version with 3G/4G capability), or do I need to buy a portable Garmin/Bad Elf GPS and connect to the iPad via Bluetooth?

If the external GPS is required, do all of the navigation apps work with Garmin and Bad Elf?

[Russell]

Two questions:

If I want to use Navionics or another iPad-based navigation app beyond cell range, can I use an iPad with internal GPS (which happens to be the iPad version with 3G/4G capability), or do I need to buy a portable Garmin/Bad Elf GPS and connect to the iPad via Bluetooth?

If the external GPS is required, do all of the navigation apps work with Garmin and Bad Elf?

The internal GPS works fine away from cell range, the GPS is part of the 3G chipset, but it is in no way dependent on 3G, you dont even have to have a valid sim card installed.

All the apps work fine with Garmin and Bad Elf, they are unaware of where the GPS positions come from.

[Squid]

Under the category of … For what it's worth. The following article covers parts of the discussion. A bit dated but still very relevant. And I would add, iNavX seems to be becoming the standard especially when coupled with Active Captain.

http://writeonthewater.com/?p=11499

Glen

[Skeep]

Glen, thanks, nice lead and accomplished author's perspective.

Agree with previous too that multiple inputs are better. Charts keep their place in the mix for me at all times. There are times when the digital stuff becomes obscure even in daylight as the wind and rain streak sideways and you are heeled over and bracing for more. We all share in the misfortune of this sailor's accident because it reminds us of ourselves, and how close sometimes, even we may have come to some sort of disaster were it not for another set of eyes and more information!

Thanks RollerGirl, that was Awesome. Go Power Sqdn!

[Squid]

Skeep, I would never advocate for anyone to rely on electronic navigation alone. I still, out of habit, run lines of bearing against objects constantly to ensure I am where I think I should be. It's based upon old piloting habits but I would suggest good habits. Just this last weekend during our routine Saturday morning coffee and tummy sinkers at the marina one of the more seasoned sailors mentioned his trip where he lost all electricity half way to Bermuda. No big deal he said, Sun/Moon/ a planet and he got there no issue. But he had learned to navigate prior to the digital age. I very much enjoy the use of all my digital gadgets and use them continualy but still verify with paper, depth and LOB to make sure all is good… But if industry wants to give us an easy to use reference I am all over them as well…. I do use my AIS receive more than I thought I would and now wouldn't be without it as a safety feature.

Glen

[Neil Gordon]

Agree with previous too that multiple inputs are better.

Yes, and if they don't all agree, consider yourself lost until you find the error and reconcile the various sources.

One good way to keep piloting skills up... take visual bearings, plot them, THEN confirm with GPS.

Before electronic gizmos, we'd study charts in advance and note coastal landmarks we could take bearings on. If you had a fix or a good DR plot, you'd know where to look for the next one. Most of us do this intuitively in local waters, but sadly rely too often on the gizmos alone, otherwise.

I read recently that the Coast Guard traced a significant number of its cutter and boat accidents to "a lack of situational awareness." One way to stay aware is to actually look around.

[Skeep]

Borrowing from another conversation and time, "Trust but Verify!"

And in my military days, not too long ago, digital stuff was always acting up and radios inevitably failed. As Neil mentioned, "Situational Awareness" or SA as we'd call it, was something that kept you out of trouble and often helped you avoid something which could become catastrophic.

I think today's savvy digital sailor, if savvy enough to surf between applications, is probably also savvy enough to know that SA and the use of all data and sources is at hand for use.

Good conversation, and reminders.

[barfwinkle]

The internal GPS works fine away from cell range, the GPS is part of the 3G chipset, but it is in no way dependent on 3G, you dont even have to have a valid sim card installed.

All the apps work fine with Garmin and Bad Elf, they are unaware of where the GPS positions come from.

I may have recently experience this without knowing it. While sailing down the windward side of Grenada my 1st mate continued to update me with positions that pretty much matched the onboard GPS read out. Whats up with that you ask. The bad elf GPS was not attached to the ipad and I have never had the IPad Air activated for 4G. I was VERY AFRAID that I might be charged for some serious data charges so I connected the Bad Elf.....

So Russell are you saying that the newer IPads have an internal GPS that works even if you are not using their data plan? Cause in hind sight that is sure what it looks like as I was not charged for data just text messaging. If that is the case, I am one happy camper!

Fair Winds

[Russell]

The internal GPS works fine away from cell range, the GPS is part of the 3G chipset, but it is in no way dependent on 3G, you dont even have to have a valid sim card installed.

All the apps work fine with Garmin and Bad Elf, they are unaware of where the GPS positions come from.

I may have recently experience this without knowing it. While sailing down the windward side of Grenada my 1st mate continued to update me with positions that pretty much matched the onboard GPS read out. Whats up with that you ask. The bad elf GPS was not attached to the ipad and I have never had the IPad Air activated for 4G. I was VERY AFRAID that I might be charged for some serious data charges so I connected the Bad Elf.....

So Russell are you saying that the newer IPads have an internal GPS that works even if you are not using their data plan? Cause in hind sight that is sure what it looks like as I was not charged for data just text messaging. If that is the case, I am one happy camper!

Fair Winds

The GPS works fine without being connected. You dont even have to be signed up for service, the GPS will work. The GPS is part of the 3G chipset, which is why the wifi only models do not have it, but you do not need to be using 3G or be connected in any way at all for the GPS to work. Its just a GPS, it has nothing to do with internet, your onboard chartplotter, your handheld, none of them need an internet connection either.

[Joe CD MS 300]

You are completely right, Russell. Unfortunately, for many people that's not important.

I'm an Instructor for the North River Power Squadron in Manhattan, and last year we put together a seminar on Ipad navigation. The seminar addressed navigation fundamentals, evaluation of a sailors requirements for their own type of use and a way to evaluate the software. We looked at hardware requirements, phone based "GPS" verses the satellite positions and other factors. Our most important point: Could you work your system in an emergency?

About one-third of the class agreed they had learned something, and that the seminar would influence their decision about picking a navigation system.

The others seemed unimpressed. They already knew their phone or pad was sufficient, that they would never encounter an emergency situation or that they just day-sail in a familiar area and enjoy the email/video/phone capabilities of their device. Besides, who would pay more for something (a chart-plotter) with no email capacity?

What I took away was that most of these people were so satisfied by their use of the phone/pad for the rest of their life enhancement that they could not imagine it letting them down.

Most of my recent students tell me they can look up almost anything on the internet. This means that if they get into a tough situation, they can look up the solution. The danger is not real to them. They have never been in trouble before.

What i left out of the story is that later John Berg would tell Latitude 38 that all he had to do was turn hard left when his navigation failed, and put out to sea until he sorted things out. But he stayed fixed on his screen to the exclusion of his reality.

Did you review the use of a radar overlay on chartplotters in the class? It is probably the most accurate use of "situational awareness". There is not much better than seeing that radar sweep matching up with the land masses and ATN's on the chartplotter. A stand alone ipad or smart phone is not going to be able to match that. I will often turn on the radar on a crystal clear day just to see how every thing lines up including what is seen with the eyes.