I Need Some Guidance

[shavdog]

I have owned a cd22 for the past 6 yrs...Prior I owned and sailed a typhoon for a couple yrs...On the cd22 I have 2 yr old north main and 150 rf.....This past weekend we had our annual three day regatta here on leech lake in northern Minnesota...49 mono and cat boats participated....I have sailed this event 8 times...I consider myself an ok sailor...not an expert but I finnish...anyway on the last day of the event the second to last leg was about three miles long into a 20mph wind where I had to tach about 10 times...this is on an inland lake so the width is about 1-1.5 miles wide....I had up a full main and about a 120 up front....I can't get the 22 to point very well....I watched other boats in my division and they for the most part just sailed away from me...it was very frustrating to watch...there was a typhoon in my fleet and he normally beats me most times but occasionally I slip by him but he perf does me in....most of the boats in my division are older 20footers with a board...I am looking for ideas to help me point higher...If you can list them in order that you would try....I do remember sailing the fractional rig typhoon and it really did point well but I really got wet on a windy day....thanks for any help ...craig....ps....I ended up 4th of 6 boats....More information..The problem exists if I fly the 150 or reefed...not much change...I replaced the original traveler with a garhaur...It does help some when I pull it to wind....yesterday while out sailing I noticed with a a reefed headsail it seemed the roller unit really bounced around a lot....maybe its too loose? also any ideas on how much rake should be in the mast....if I hang the main halyard behind the mast to the deck approx. how many inches should the gap be?....or is this invalid...thanks again...

[NateHanson]

Roller furling a 150 makes for poor pointing in my experience. Also, sight your headstay from behind the mast, to get a sense of how much sag you have when close-hauled. Tighten the backstay if that headstay is sagging more than 4-6 inches to leeward.

[Russell]

You really needed more appropriate sail up if you really want to maximize your pointing, a 150 rolled down to 120 will be pretty poor.

[Gary H]

My 22D has a 130 roller furler genoa. In heavy winds, I have raced it with the Genny furled down to 110 or thereabouts. I have not had a problem with pointing. In fact, it points pretty much as well as my previously owned Typhoon. I do not, however, see any slack in my forestay/furler so that my be part of your difficulty. My speed with the furled Genny is disappointing, however.

As for racing against Typhoons, I find that there is not much difference in speed capabilities between a 22 and a Ty, despite the huge difference in PHRF ratings. I do not understand why the Typhoon has such a large handicap. In my experience, It is a much faster boat than it is rated. It is pretty hard to beat a Typhoon in a handicapped race.

[s2sailorlis]

OP states that he has same issue whether furled or not, so the furling issue seems to not be the problem.

I have always read that the main really provides most of the ability to point better - at least with fin-keeled boats. where is the draft in your main, typically you want the draft of your main back a bit for better pointing. also, i have noticed on my prior boat having the luff of the main somewhat "loose", ie not bar-tight helps in pointing too. i would focus on the main and see what happens... bringing the traveler to windward should help, and it seems you are doing that - also those 20 footers likely have 5 foot centerboards that certainly help somewhat when going to windward.

final piece of advice, don't focus on pointing as much as VMG. You are only going to point to a certain degree, after that VMG to the windward mark will help you determine best strategies. Gary Jobson's book on Championship Sailing is a great resource for tips and advice for racing.

i don't plan on racing my CD22, I really don't consider it a racing boat and having fin-keeled boats in the past I would only get frustrated...

[NateHanson]

Sounds like you have a new main, but how old is the 150? It might be bagged out enough to make for a wide tacking angle.

Also, folks are talking about raising the traveller to windward. But in the conditions the OP describes (upwind with 20 mph wind speed?) I'd certainly be lowering the traveller and probably easing the main just a bit to give it a little twist at the top.

That's a lot of sail to carry in 20 mph of wind, in my experience with my 22. Is it possible that you're not pointing well because you're simply over-canvased?

Upwind, my boat points well under full main and 150 up to about 10 knots true wind. Above that I do better with a 100, and before 15 knots I'm reefing the main to keep the sails powered up and the rail off the water. (downwind is another issue of course, and I carry more sail at those windspeeds).

[roger]

Hi Craig--my 22 points much higher with the addition of side deck mounted track with adjustable fairlead blocks. The size of jib I have out determines the block location on the track. Experience so far suggests the highest pointing results when the jib size is about 90 to 100. The original bulls eye fairlead was in a position where the adjustable block is now for about 90 percent jib. I think the original equipment jib was about 90. Roger

[Skeep]

Shavdog, for what it's worth, I'm not as particular about racing nor do I care a whole lot for it because I'm sailing a Typhoon. And these boats seem to be built for stability over speed. When I have raced, I consistently have come across the finish line just about dead last albeit sailing against some pretty performance built vessels and a handful of pig boats--my term for bigish 20 somethings that look like they'd be misery to sail.

However, when sailing with other Cape Dory Typhoons, both weekenders and day sailers, I found we were pretty much similar. A few had some tricks up their sleeves, and a few others knew the currents, and so they prevailed. But they offered me a bit of advice: one was to make sure your headsail is attached to the very fore hole on the bronze bow plate, thus offering you the most advantage of sail "forward.' Two was from from our resident sail guru from Ullman Sails to allow your sails a bit of slack thus creating a "speed wrinkle."

Beyond that, take a cooler with some fine drinks aboard, and don't sail that heavy keel boat alongside those polished slick flat hulls that will out-perform you and I any day of the week! But when the weather gets tough, you'll still be sailing!

[shavdog]

Thanks for the tips....my main is a 4 yr old ulman loosed footed main. and my head is a 2 year old 150 from north sails...both are mostly like new...the one thing I want to check is the rake of the mast...I am out of adjustment on the backstay so I ordered a couple new swage studs and will shorten the split backstay so I can tighten up the roller furling unit...it seems very loose to me...I read alittle weather helm is ok...the day the wind was at 20, maybe a reef in the main would have been better...I can work on that....see what combination works best...I did have the foot pretty tight that day....normally I allow the foot out about 6 inches in the middle of the boom on lighter wind days....learning as I go...thanks again.. anyone have any thoughts on the mast rake?

[tartansailor]

Check out the following


"HOW TO POINT, FOOT, AND SHIFT GEARS.

Sailing World Magazine.

[s2sailorlis]

Given this is a masthead deck stepped rig not sure the backstay will help rake. Normally keel stepped rigs can be raked due to the ability to adjust the collar thru the deck. Playing with the backstay on a CD22 I would think will just effect pre-bend somewhat and given its a masthead rig one can only get so much prebend v a fractional stick.

Thanks for the tips....my main is a 4 yr old ulman loosed footed main. and my head is a 2 year old 150 from north sails...both are mostly like new...the one thing I want to check is the rake of the mast...I am out of adjustment on the backstay so I ordered a couple new swage studs and will shorten the split backstay so I can tighten up the roller furling unit...it seems very loose to me...I read alittle weather helm is ok...the day the wind was at 20, maybe a reef in the main would have been better...I can work on that....see what combination works best...I did have the foot pretty tight that day....normally I allow the foot out about 6 inches in the middle of the boom on lighter wind days....learning as I go...thanks again.. anyone have any thoughts on the mast rake?

[pjust]

My jib blocks are mounted on a track and I find that moving them forward when I reef the Genoa makes a noticeable difference in my Ty's ability to point up.

[shavdog]

I rec'd my swage tool and two new ends and will install them next week to tighten up the roller furling unit....its too loose ...I plan on removing the main and boom first and let the main halyard hang with a small weight to see where it rests...also on north sails site they say to take your jib halyard down to the bottom of the mast then lay it against your jib stay and it should be about 92 cm from the deck.....to see what angle your mast is at.....The one thing I notice when sailing with a good wind theres alot of pressure on my tiller handle....is that right?...thanks

[s2sailorlis]

Yep...pressure is called weather helm. My last boat was perfectly balanced with just a bit of weather helm. This happens when CE is a bit too far behind CLR...bottom line is to reduce mainsl area in winds prob north of 12-15 true. Not much you can really do about it from what I have experienced so far. Too much weather helm is bad as it 1) creates drag from rudder which slows u down; 2) unnecessary strain on fittings; 3) possible additional structural strain on the rudder. In 8 -10 knots true I am surprised as to the amount to weather helm on these boats (140 Genny and full main). Will have to play with the main a bit. I do notice that sitting to windward helps when singlehanded in these light air conditions...makes me want to cut the main so she has negative roach..

I rec'd my swage tool and two new ends and will install them next week to tighten up the roller furling unit....its too loose ...I plan on removing the main and boom first and let the main halyard hang with a small weight to see where it rests...also on north sails site they say to take your jib halyard down to the bottom of the mast then lay it against your jib stay and it should be about 92 cm from the deck.....to see what angle your mast is at.....The one thing I notice when sailing with a good wind theres alot of pressure on my tiller handle....is that right?...thanks

[Gary H]

My experience has been that on the 22, it is the large genoa that adds more to weather helm than the mainsail. It seems that the full genny above 12 knots leads to excessive healing. In addition, much of the genny extends aft of the mast which also may promote weather helm

As for the mainsail, my main is a full battened sail. I replaced what were rather flimsy battens with 1.5 inch tapered battens. The sail shape was noticeably improved with the draft moved forward.

I have also noticed that my boat sits with its transom noticeably lower than the bow. I attribute this the the 22d's 200lb diesel, fuel tank, and batteries. Not much I can do about this other than try to keep the water tank under the v-berth full but I doubt that would make much difference.