masthead and keel stepped CDs... and a bit about my CD22

[matane]

Hi Everyone,
I have not posted in a long time and just wrote a long post... which I lostsafter. After posing my question, I talked about my several month long solo sails in the CD22- really amazing boat. The PO turned out to be a member here named Tom, but I don't know if that is his screen name. A very good and generous man as well as honest down to the smallest bone.

I'm moored in Coconut Grove/Miami and have made it to the western edge of the Bahama Bank, and 3 trips down to the Marquesas which are basically midway between Key West and the Dry Tortugas. The Marquesas are amazing and you can live on fish for as long as you want.

So....my question. Depending on a few things- in the next 2 years I may move up in size. The cramped cabin of the 22makes it difficult on long voyages of more than a week. Otherwise the CD 22 no engine well is an incredible boat.

I plan on crossing larger and larger bodies of water. I do not want a masthead stepped. I would like a keel stepped in the 27-32 range. Preferable lower part of the range. I noticed that the 28 sloop is masthead. I would like to know which boats are keel stepped.
Or...is installing a compression bar as structurally sound as the keel step.
Surprisingly....the 25D...is Keel Stepped...
So...this is my question.

Thanks everyone for their input when I was deciding on which smaller CD to get. The CD22 I found was completely re-outifitted and barrier coated according to the proper proceedures. It was outfitted for single handling. Tom included so many things with the boat that I hardly had to buy anything. I keep it simple. No chart-plotter. I know how to use charts/dead reckon- both day and night for the marker-blinks. I have a handheld GPS that I rarely use. I don't know if he posts anymore- but he is a very good man and I am forever grateful for his generosity. After all the work he did... he was unable to sail anymore. I have had this boat in severe conditions- 45-50kt winds in thunderstorms, and reefed down in small craft warnings and advisories. She has taken care of me despite my stupidity in several situations.
If I do move up and have to sell this boat I will be heartbroken.

Anyway- so...which boats are keel stepped...?

Thanks for your input

[Paul D.]

I don't know if the CD 28's are keep or deck stepped, likely deck stepped. However if you search posts here by Fenixrises, you'll find he sailed one across the Pacific and did some pretty serious voyages aboard and gives lots of info on the boat. If I remember rightly he did do some significant work to the boat to make it more seaworthy like increase the bulwarks. Good luck with your search and voyages! There are usually more of them available than the 26's or 27's. Should be plenty of 30's about and they are a solid little boat though I don't believe they have a keel-stepped mast.

I'd recommend the 33 if it wasn't just out of your size range. Simple, well built, comfortable and easy to single hand with that traveller right there on the bridge deck, where it belongs! I also like the ability to hoist the sails by hand all the way up without a winch.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Surprisingly....the 25D...is Keel Stepped...

Matane:

To my knowledge all Cape Dory 25Ds are deck stepped masts from the factory. There is a post in the cabin positioned below the mast on deck. However, this is not part of the mast. I think it is in the nature of a compression post.

S/V Bali Ha'i (1982 CD 25D) is located at the CGSC, pretty close to your CD 22. I will be hauling out shortly for some maintenance, service sea cocks, etc. Come Sep/Oct if you want to sail on her please let me know. I much prefer to sail with someone than solo.

[matane]

I keep losing posts....

First- Femme du Nord- vous etes Francophone? Du Quebec? If not sorry. Maybe it is just the name of your boat.
Sometimes I would refer to friends that were Quebecoises femme ou fille du nord. Being currently in Miami...I am fils du sud lol.
I was going to change l'nom de mon voilier/sailboat a Marie-Helene...But the original name "Inua" has grown on me... and the Coast Guard- be for better or for worse....know me....

ROBERT!! You know who I am- we've talked several times, and I love your boat. I'm a member at CGSC- I'm the guy with the CD22 that goes to the Marquesas. I've had it moored there for a year, but just paid to become a member before my last trip June2-21. So we can meet for coffee and plan to go out if you want
PM me w/contact info or when you want to meet

Good to hear about the masthead/deck stepped CDs going distance (Pacific?). I'm going to have to read more about it. I just finished a book by this guy named Bernard Moitessier- and he goes into the whole steel and wood vs "plastic". Aside from that- he designed his own boats, which are full long keels like CDs. Either he, or the other single hand guy- Tristan Jones, talked about problems with deck stepped. These are books written - one in '93, and Tristan in '85. A lot has changed.

Anyway- I still want to know which are fixed to the keel.

[Paul D.]

Matane,

Bernard Moitessier is legend!

Désolé, je ne parle pas français. Mais un jour, je vais. Femme du Nord is named after intrepid girl groups from my old wilderness trekking program. They went on very remote canoe trips to the far north Nunavut and Yukon Territories for up to 45 days. Plus she is on western Lake Superior, which is pretty north for sailing fleets.

I think the 33 is the smallest Cape Dory with a keel stepped mast but I am not sure. Folks will chime in here though.

Bonne chance!

Actually, the 31 is keel stepped. Just saw it look in About Cape Dories tab, Specifications of Cape Dories, Cape Dory 31, Sail plan.

[Steve Laume]

Why the focus on the keel stepped mast? Raven is deck stepped and it is one of the last tings I would worry about. There is a massive steel stricture built into the deck which carries the load to a couple of bulkheads down below. I seriously doubt if the bulkheads are necessary to handle the loads but they are there if they need to be.

Carl Alberg was a fine designer as you have already discovered. He certainly didn't design all of our boats with a weak point at the mast. There are pros and cons to everything. A keel stepped mast is certainly a straight forward and strong way to step the mast. It is also prone to leaking and if it should ever fail, which is very unlikely, then it could tear out the deck of the boat. A deck stepped mast would simply wash away.

How the mast is stepped on any Cape Dory would not influence my decision in which boat to buy, Steve.

[Jim Walsh]

Steve is correct. Well engineered is well engineered. Poorly engineered is poorly engineered. My mast is keel stepped but that does not mean it is inherently superior to every deck stepped mast. And as far as the leaks at the partners go.....I've got it down to a few drips at the worst of times and I'm satisfied I've done my best

[matane]

Hi Steve and the others
You make some very good points. I would much prefer a deck/masthead sloop or cutter to dealing with keel stepped. I think with
a fiber glass boat if the mast breaks to a point that affects the deck.... the deck stepped is going to rip the top. The keel stepped usually break somewhere above- I'm sure there are exceptions.
I am throwing this out so that I understand pros and cons. I did not know about the steel reinforcements- which size boats?

If I look at the Contessa 26- it has proven its strengh in knockdowns in the Indian Ocean etc- and I am pretty sure it is deck stepped and not keel. Perhaps it has a compression bar. Aside from the CDs I like the Contessa 26 very much- but I probably want to move up a couple feet higher than this.

I am probably overly concerned because I have no idea if I will ever cross the Atlantic northern route , or go south to the southern hemisphere southern latitudes, roaring 40s etc. The latter I seriously doubt. Actually, I hope I never find myself there.
For all I know, I may simply go to the Bahamas- where there are zillions or reefs, islands, and ecologies to explore....and
never go further

My little 22....this may sound crazy- but with modifications-a compression post-, hatch and companionway seals/ covers, porthole protection, boueancy things in the aft compartment, and starboard compartment...maybe larger scuppers etc.... I know it would make it across the Atlantic. The boat is short and stout and has a decent keel for its size....and.....t's a masthead.
So, Steve you make some very good points and this helps. No, I do not want to cross the Atlantic in the 22- its just to make a point. I trust this boat boat- I really love this boat. I have been laid flat in it- not a knockdown with the mast submerged, but simply laid down- and it has come right back up (I was in the cabin and it was on self steer)

As for the leaks on a keel stepped- that would not affect my decision, as the other gentleman said- he deals with it- just as plenty of others with keel stepped do.

Ok, so it seems the 31 is the smallest.

I have looked at specs and diagrams but they are not always clear in the drawings.

Femme du Nord: I also did a lot of wilderness stuff in Quebec...not at all as far as north as Nunavut... I used to live in Maine and went to Quebec frequently. Most was either in the Gaspe Penn. or north and east of Quebec-Ville. At one time I wanted badly to go to the Yukon... but it seems that my life has come full circle... and I spend my time with the sea. I want to to Golfe Saint-Laurent et le Fleuve. ....and...maybe...moore my boat for the summer...guess where? lol Matane. (Bas-St-Laurent region north of Riviere du Loup)
I have no idea why I chose that as my screen name
Wow, I would very much like to hear about treking in the Yukon. There is this remote, rather mysterious park, full of weird stories- that is actually at the very north of Alberta near where it meets NW Territories and Yukon...I forget the name...Na.. something. It might even be UNESCO. Accessible only by bush plane. I dreamed of going there one day.

So you are truly Femmes du Nord si vous allez a Nunavut! Fascinating.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[matane]

Paul...I suspect I misunderstood- you were involve with the intrepid group of girls...but you are Paul, et pas une des femmes!

How do you like your CD33? I'm sure on Lake Superior you can run into incredibly heavy weather when lows come your way....
I bet you have a well functioning heater below!

[wsonntag]

Not much to say pro/con on deck or keel stepped other than keep stepped has always seem the stouter arrangement to me and definitely the traditional configuration of many a classic and wooden boats.

The CD 31 has a keel stepped mast.