Temporary Teak Management

[jrisler]

So, having gotten plenty of advice on seacocks, I also have a question about my teak. Given the long discussions on this board, I am still debating Cetol Marine Natural or a varnish. However, I have a more immediate issue. One of my coaming board was done with the old Cetol, which now looks like brown paint. The other side was done with varnish. Both of them are now flaking/peeling. The toe rail is also in rough shape with most of the varnish/Cetol having come off (I'm not sure which was used, but leaning towards varnish). I know it is mainly cosmetic, but I would like to start working on this.

I have read that the best time to refinish the woodwork, be it Cetol or varnish is once the boat is in the water. That eliminates most issues of dust, bugs, ect. As Aria is presently at a club with an unpaved road, that seems like good advice. However, it also seems like trying to refinish a toe rail with a boat rocking in the water would be difficult in practical terms. Has anyone done this, or should do all the refinsihing while she is on the cradle? I want to remove the coaming boards entirely and redo them at home, but that is another matter.

Second, if I should wait until the boat is in the water for these cosmetic projects, I was thinking about at least getting started. Specifically, I was thinking it would be a good idea to attempt to scrape off the old finish and at least oid the wood for the time being. That way, I won't have that step one the boat is in the water. Does this make sense? I figure if it is stable, it will be easier to work with the scrapper and heat gun. I would then plan to oil the teak to get some life back into it before I decide to put on Cetol/varnish. Any thoughts?

[tjr818]

My advice would be to do all of the scraping, sanding, bleaching and cleaning while on dry land. The environment will thank you for that. Then I would also do the toe rail / rub rail while on dry land - at least the bottom portion. It is very hard to lean over the side and paint upside down. We use Cetol Natural Teak and then the gloss overcoat on everything but the outside of the rub rails.
Varnish can be beautiful, but having owned two boats that were finished natural and 100% varnished, I'll never do it again. If I didn't have a Cape Dory I'd have a boat with a work boat finish - no varnish, no brass. nothing to polish. I'd be out on the water far more often.

[ariasis]

If at all possible do it on land. I've done it both ways. here http://bristol-blue.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... -skid.html and here. http://bristol-blue.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... ooahs.html I'm totally pro varnish it's a bit more effort but I think it is worth it. I haven't had the best of luck with Cetol. I'm not sure you can oil under varnish though so you may want to check that. Mine came heavily oiled but I teak cleaned and sanded it all off. .. The cock pit combings I pulled those and did them on the belt sander, saved a ton of time.

[Russell]

Do not oil the teak if you plan to varnish! If you need to get the color back, you either sand or bleach (wood bleach, not clorox), often both. Oiling the teak will ensure you get a terrible dark finish that rather promptly peels off.

[tjr818]

Let me just add one thing at this point. Sanding seems like an easy way to restore teak, but what you are really doing is removing teak. Over a thirty year period, how much teak do you think has been removed? On Sláinte we have two spots where the teak bungs are completely gone and the screw heads are showing through.
Be careful. Scraping varnish is better than sanding away your teak ($29.00 /bdft)

[John Stone]

Without pictures I can only share some general thoughts. I agree with one of the previous posts--try to avoid sanding the teak--sanding is the last resort. Use a heat gun and a "pull" scraper to remove the old varnish. Once you have stripped the old varnish you can, if needed, use e "Te-Ka" two part teak cleaner that will cut through just about any old oil, grime, mildew, you name it. You can get it at any good marine store--I recommend Jamestown Distributors. Anyway, your teak will look new. You'll need to mask the fiberglass with some sheet plastic and some tape to keep the Te-Ka off the fiberglass, but it is not a huge project. Teak is a great exterior wood. I don't normally varnish exterior teak as it is a great wood to let go bare--especially if its horizontal. You do need to gently scrub it with a very soft scrub pad every once in a while (never use a brush).

Or you can varnish--use whatever varnish you like--I like Epifanes high gloss with UV. You only need a dust free environment for the last couple of coats of varnish. You are looking at 7-8 coats of varnish minimum to do it right. Once you get it clean, tape off your work (use 3m 233 tape) slap the first coats of varnish on (one per day) to protect your work. Then, pull the tape and work on a couple of other projects then some back to more varnish . . . or whatever works for you. The first coat is usually cut 50% with mineral spirits, the second coat is cut 25%, the third coat is straight varnish with only enough mineral spirits to keep it flowing properly. Sand between every coat. You can apply the last couple of coats at the dock or on the hook. The sanding is tedious but not difficult. This is very light sanding . . . just enough to scuff the surface. Only the last coat or two of varnish requires careful application. There is nothing like varnish. It took me a while to learn how to apply it but now it is a reasonably simple task. If you keep up with it, you'll never need to strip it down to bare wood again. If you don't keep up with it, you are back to square one. I started with badger hair brushes but have moved on to jen-poly foam and have been very satisfied with the results and the reduction in time spent cleaning brushes. There is a lot of information out there on varnishing, but I have learned a lot from "Brightwork, The Art of Finishing Wood", by Rebecca J. Wittman. I think it's important to pick a technique and stick with it till you develop a good skill level. Otherwise you just chase the different techniques around and never develop a level of comfort with it as each technique has its own peculiarities. Good luck.

[Joe Myerson]

Let me second the advice that you do your teak work while the boat is on the hard. And, whether you're removing layers of varnish or Cetol, I strongly recommend using a heat gun and a scraper. It's clean, non-toxic and quite efficient.

Watch out that you don't overdo the heat, however. I just removed years' worth of Cetol from my hatch boards (the rest of the coaming is also slated for refinishing this spring(. Unfortunately I started working on an exterior face ( ), only to discover that I scorched the teak in spots. I did some light sanding, but--as prior posters warned--I didn't want to take off too much teak.

I happen to be Cetol fan, especially now that the company has come out with a "natural" formula. But that's for another thread.

Good luck. (It's been too cold here on Cape Cod for me to start applying the new coats of whatever.)

--Joe

[Jim1945]

Cetol fan here too. I've done the hatch guides and the cockpit cushion teak strips with natural and then gloss. They are fantastic. No sanding in between coats. Couldn't be easier. To recoat just take a fine scotchbrite pad to it.

[bamabratsche]

The toe and rub rails are definitely easier on the hard, but for everything in and around the cockpit (already the most picky/tedious parts) it doesn't really make that much difference in my experience. I have done it both on the hard and in the water, and really the only difference is you don't have to bend over to do the rails if you're on the hard.

I love the look of a good varnish job, but also second the Cetol recommendation (couple coats of "natural" for color then "gloss" on top of that to keep it from turning darker over time) for the simple reason that you don't have to sand between coats. For me, without sanding I can just barely get one coat on everything in a day (i.e., have to start late enough in the morning that the dew is dry but finish by early afternoon so everything is set up by the time the evening dew arrives). If I had to sand between every coat there would be no way to get it all done without starting at 5am. If I had a trailer and a garage where I could do this in a less humid environment it would not be so bad, though, especially if I could just walk out the back door after breakfast instead of driving 45 minutes to the marina.

What I've started doing this year is to do half the teak (toe and rub rails) in the fall and other half (cockpit stuff) in the spring. I still have to block off four days for each half--cleaning, scuff sanding, and masking on day one, then three maintenance coats--but they are much more manageable days than before.

I think the moral of this story is to very seriously consider letting the teak go gray and go sailing instead!!

[tjr818]

I think the moral of this story is to very seriously consider letting the teak go gray and go sailing instead!!

If the teak on Sláinte had been peeling or in bad shape I definitely would have let it go gray, but she had just been freshly Cetoled so we have kept her that way. Gray has a lot going for it.

[John Stone]

Well I agree that varnishing can be a lot of work. But, again, you don't have to varnish everything. Some varnished wood contrasted with bare teak has a great look . . . to my eye. I suppose you could do the same with cetol. Toe-rails and the rub-rail are the worst. Personally, I would not varnish them or use cetol. When I built the raised bulwark on my boat, even though the african mahogany was lovely, I painted them . . . way to much varnishing. I varnished the cockpit coamings -- had to as they are mahogany and not teak -- and the dorade boxes (which I also had to do as I had to repaired them with epoxy) and the lower half of the winch pads. Everything else I left bare. I am about to install a teak cap to the varnished mahogany coamings and I'll leave it bare. I used cetol a long time ago and I did not like it as I thought it had an un-natural look. It also chipped easily. It also occurred to me that because it was so easy to apply, I got lazy and did not do as good a job. I have seen some of the new cetol and it looks much better than the original stuff. In the end, you should do what pleases you vice anyone else. Taking care of your boat should be fun and rewarding however much or little you choose to do. I think that's what we all love about boats.

[Skeep]

I second the motion of John, that Epiphanes Danish varnish, for me, is the route to go. My story of BaggyWrinkles illustrates that upon possession of the Ty, I promptly removed all the teak parts, and in order to start from a base-line I sanded to a point on all parts that I was satisfied with (i.e., considering the points of several of you that sanding forever removes teak too! Which is true!). However, once done, I applied the Epiphanes and built my surface.

See the photos: http://baggywrinkles.blogspot.com/2013/ ... to-do.html

Once this was done, I then this past December very lightly sanded with 600 wet/dry all parts including toe and rub rail and reapplied Epiphanes once or twice, depending on wear. And so...this is what she looks like now:









These photos were taken in December after my annual reapplication. Temps were in the 60s outside and the Epiphanes had already weathered quite a bit of winter. She's still looking great now, late April.

I'm sure if my Cape Dory were 46' in length that I'd not be so over-the-moon about annual revarnishing. But she's a Ty. So I do it with joy.

[Joe Myerson]

I'm taking on my teak trim in segments this time, because I'm stripping it to bare wood using a heat gun and scrapers. I'll start with the companionway entrance and the hatch doors, which are already stripped. I'm peeling off the Cetol (10 years' worth) from the cockpit coaming, but plan to do the rub rails and toe rails next season.

My teak coating has held up quite well, but it is now dark brown, except for the tiller, which I stripped and coated with Cetol Natural last season. I did not apply gloss on the tiller for obvious reasons.

The weather here in New England has simply not been warm enough to apply Cetol yet ... but it's good for stripping it. My shrink wrap is still on the boat, and I will obviously remove it before I start applying the finish.

I started finishing the teak with one coat of regular (orange) Cetol, followed by one or two coats of Cetol Light. It looked quite nice, but has darkened over the years -- and Cetol Natural looks so much better. No, it doesn't look like varnish, but I'd rather be sailing than painting.

--Joe