I'm looking at setting up a mooring in a small harbor surrounded by some islands in Penobscot Bay in Maine. Bottom is muddy, longtime lobsterman I know has a mushroom anchor in the same harbor and says the bottom is excellent (he doesn't actually keep his boat there often, lives a few islands away, but will occasionally store a scow loaded with traps there).
Boat is a Ty Senior. This would be its "home away from home," the boat would probably be on the mooring 20-30 nights next season, but possibly more. I would be staying ashore on one of the nearby islands, not on the boat. Ideally, I'd just like to not worry about it even during a good blow.
There's no town there, so no harbormaster. The lobsterman's mooring is the only one there. Cruisers like to anchor there during the summer, but it's not usually crowded.
Depth is roughly 19' at mean low, high is around 30'. It's well protected from all but the northwest.
I'm trying to get a handle on cost at this point. In general I believe in paying for quality, especially with something like a mooring, but I don't have a lot of extra cash for this.
First off, is a USA-made steel mushroom anchor the way to go? Like Annes? (http://www.annesanchors.com/products.html).
I can get a 250 lb. one at Hamilton Marine for $500. The imported ones are quite a bit less, but I gather that the eye will wear quicker (and the cast ones can't be repaired by welding, I hear). Any opinions here? Any other options to consider?
Was thinking 3/4" bottom chain and 1/2" top chain, with a swivel under the buoy. What type of chain is best? Is hot-dip galvanized the way to go?
Right now, based on retail pricing from Hamilton, I'm up around $1,200 in gear for this. Any ways to economize further without significantly compromising safety?
If I chose to anchor in the harbor instead, at least for this season, is that more of a worry? The boat may be there off and on throughout the summer, sometimes just for a night and sometimes for days at a time, maybe even 2-3 weeks at some point.
Thanks--I've read up on moorings online but am a total novice at this point.
mooring gear
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Megunticook
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Oswego John
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Re: mooring gear
Megunticook,
Jamestown Distributors has some pretty good info on setting up a mushroom mooring. They provide a tutorial entitled "Mooring Basics" which provides solid info on what is needed.
Since where you plan to set your mooring is fairly well isolated from civilization, I don't think that you have to worry about electrolysis as much as you would have to if you were in a busy harbour.
As many readers are aware of, the mushroom type of mooring derives its effectiveness, not so much for its weight, but when the lip of the saucer shaped disc digs into the mud. A 200 lb mushroom should have a shaft at about 4 feet in length. Short shanked mushrooms are dangerous. The long shanked anchors provide leverage to tip the saucer and allow the saucer lip to dig in. In time, because of shifting winds, the mushroom anchor will crank itself below the mud surface and thus provide extra holding power.
When you first place your mooring, you should "set" the mushroom by pulling on the shank away from the normally prevailing wind. When a short shanked mushroom is lowered in location, unless it is initially "set", there is a great chance for it to skate across the bottom.
You will probably need a power boat to install, and especially remove, the mooring and tackle of this size.
Good luck.
O J
Jamestown Distributors has some pretty good info on setting up a mushroom mooring. They provide a tutorial entitled "Mooring Basics" which provides solid info on what is needed.
Since where you plan to set your mooring is fairly well isolated from civilization, I don't think that you have to worry about electrolysis as much as you would have to if you were in a busy harbour.
As many readers are aware of, the mushroom type of mooring derives its effectiveness, not so much for its weight, but when the lip of the saucer shaped disc digs into the mud. A 200 lb mushroom should have a shaft at about 4 feet in length. Short shanked mushrooms are dangerous. The long shanked anchors provide leverage to tip the saucer and allow the saucer lip to dig in. In time, because of shifting winds, the mushroom anchor will crank itself below the mud surface and thus provide extra holding power.
When you first place your mooring, you should "set" the mushroom by pulling on the shank away from the normally prevailing wind. When a short shanked mushroom is lowered in location, unless it is initially "set", there is a great chance for it to skate across the bottom.
You will probably need a power boat to install, and especially remove, the mooring and tackle of this size.
Good luck.
O J
"If I rest, I rust"
Voting Member #490
Voting Member #490
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Markst95
- Posts: 628
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Re: mooring gear
I purchase a used setup and have been happy with it, you might check around with mooring companies in the area and try and get a package deal with installation included. Depending on the area I know of some mushrooms still in service after 20 years. My Ty is great on a mooring, the low windage and keel keeps it from getting bounced around. You should see the West Wight Potter nearby dancing around in a blow.
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Carl Thunberg
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3/4 inch chain for a Ty?
3/4 inch chain for a Ty seems like WAY OVERKILL in a protected harbor. If you're looking for ways to economize, you may want to start there. Yes, I am fully aware that I may be going against prevailing wisdom that says "spare no expense on ground tackle". I have two moorings in Poorhouse Cove in mid-coast Maine. Both have 1/2-inch chain, and I replace them on a 5-year schedule, and I personally inspect them at the beginning of every season. I moored my former CD30 on them and never gave it a second thought.
I'm not suggesting that my set-up will work in your particular situation. Your water is deeper than mine and your exposure is probably different, so consult with a local marine contractor. They know the area, and they can tell you exactly what you need.
I'm not suggesting that my set-up will work in your particular situation. Your water is deeper than mine and your exposure is probably different, so consult with a local marine contractor. They know the area, and they can tell you exactly what you need.
CDSOA Commodore - Member No. 725
"The more I expand the island of my knowledge, the more I expand the shoreline of my wonder"
Sir Isaac Newton
"The more I expand the island of my knowledge, the more I expand the shoreline of my wonder"
Sir Isaac Newton
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Megunticook
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Re: mooring gear
1/2" bottom chain? I was thinking the bottom chain had to be heavy. But I have zero experience with moorings. Just going by what I read.Carl Thunberg wrote:3/4 inch chain for a Ty seems like WAY OVERKILL in a protected harbor. If you're looking for ways to economize, you may want to start there. Yes, I am fully aware that I may be going against prevailing wisdom that says "spare no expense on ground tackle". I have two moorings in Poorhouse Cove in mid-coast Maine. Both have 1/2-inch chain, and I replace them on a 5-year schedule, and I personally inspect them at the beginning of every season. I moored my former CD30 on them and never gave it a second thought
The harbor is fairly well protected but a strong northwest breeze can blow pretty good in there.
Re: mooring gear
What island are you going to ?
Re: mooring gear
Unfortunately, there is very little good information on moorings available. The sailing magazines have done numerous anchor tests but almost no mooring tests (boat US recently did a writeup that included the results from all of the mooring tests that I know of). The first thing you need to do is figure out what the mooring must do. Some suggestions are:
Holding power (a good start is the ABYC table which suggests 1080 lbs, go higher if you want it to survive a hurricane or if you have a lot of fetch)
Ability to take a pull from any direction
Chafe resistance
Shock absorption
Do you need to set it yourself or will an installer do that?
Starting with the anchor, you have several options. Mushrooms work really well in the correct bottoms (mud that they can really sink into) but will be pulled out easily in all other bottoms. Before placing a mushroom anchor, you need to figure out what the bottom type is from the surface to ~5' down. If everything looks good for one, then I would get a minimum 250 lb USA steel mushroom. The holding power in various tests is all over the place on mushrooms from 3-10X anchor weight and this reflects the variability in the bottoms so you need to be either really confident in the bottom or go oversize.
If the bottom will not let a mushroom easily penetrate (sand, hard mud, etc), you could consider a Dor-Mor pyramid anchor. These penetrate quite well in most bottoms except rock. Holding power is ~10X anchor weight but I like to use the same size as a mushroom. Our 30k sits on a 500 lb one of these.
If you don't need to set it yourself, a deadweight anchor can work quite well. These tend to have about the same holding power as their water weight. Since concrete loses about half of its water weight, you would need a minimum 2000 lb block when dry. This is the only anchor that you can make yourself but be careful if you do. You need to reenforce the concrete and use a fairly low, flat shape. A lot of these drag but that is because people use way too small sizes as they don't understand how poor the holding power is. Another common failure point on these is the staple/eye so you need to either use a large diameter rod or put a through hole which you put the chain through.
It is possible to construct a good 3 point mooring but you need to purchase 3 large anchors and understand the geometry (please ask if you are going to try this) or the system will fail. I consider this a good option for people who need a mooring that can be set and removed without large equipment but otherwise not as good.
With all of these types, your holding power improves with time so try to do any mooring work in the fall so that the anchor can sink in over the winter.
Your chain serves 2 purposes. The first is to connect the boat and anchor so it must be strong enough even in a corroded state to take the expected loads. The second is to provide shock absorption. Unfortunately, chain is not a great shock absorber for high loads so you either need really heavy chain or a long, shock absorbing pendant. At a minimum, I would use 1/2" bottom chain and 3/8" top chain but heavier won't hurt you and it will last a lot longer. Make sure that you use an absolute minimum of 2.5:1 scope for the highest tide you expect and 3:1 would be good if there is room (please don't crowd out the anchored boats though). For your bottom chain, you don't need galvanized if it sits in the mud most of the time but I would go galvy for your top chain.
In my opinion, most pendants are inadequate. The goal is the same as the chain, provide a strong connection and shock absorption. Nylon is an excellent shock absorber but not great with chafe. Chafe occurs because you have relative movement between the line and something like a rail with a lot of friction. To deal with this, you either need to use something like the Yale pendants that Hamiltons sells, you need to move your cleats to the rail (no distance=no stretch and no relative movement) or make a hybrid pendant. If I were going to do my mooring over again, I would make a very short dyneema (something like amsteel) pendant that goes from the cleat to just past the bow with eye splices in each end. You would then cow hitch this into a normal nylon pendant (make sure the sizes are the same). Research has showed almost no chafe at the connection between the lines and the dyneema will not chafe on the bow so you get a pendant with good chafe characteristics and good elasticity.
Hamiltons is a good resource for all of this and they have good guidance on shackles, swivels, balls, etc. Also, you might try to search some of the stuff that Maine Sail has written as he has generally good advice and pictures on this. Regarding just anchoring, I wouldn't do that as even new generation anchors don't handle the constant wind shifts as well as a mooring and they require a lot of scope and are hard to prevent chafe on.
Good luck, I hope that this is helpful.
Holding power (a good start is the ABYC table which suggests 1080 lbs, go higher if you want it to survive a hurricane or if you have a lot of fetch)
Ability to take a pull from any direction
Chafe resistance
Shock absorption
Do you need to set it yourself or will an installer do that?
Starting with the anchor, you have several options. Mushrooms work really well in the correct bottoms (mud that they can really sink into) but will be pulled out easily in all other bottoms. Before placing a mushroom anchor, you need to figure out what the bottom type is from the surface to ~5' down. If everything looks good for one, then I would get a minimum 250 lb USA steel mushroom. The holding power in various tests is all over the place on mushrooms from 3-10X anchor weight and this reflects the variability in the bottoms so you need to be either really confident in the bottom or go oversize.
If the bottom will not let a mushroom easily penetrate (sand, hard mud, etc), you could consider a Dor-Mor pyramid anchor. These penetrate quite well in most bottoms except rock. Holding power is ~10X anchor weight but I like to use the same size as a mushroom. Our 30k sits on a 500 lb one of these.
If you don't need to set it yourself, a deadweight anchor can work quite well. These tend to have about the same holding power as their water weight. Since concrete loses about half of its water weight, you would need a minimum 2000 lb block when dry. This is the only anchor that you can make yourself but be careful if you do. You need to reenforce the concrete and use a fairly low, flat shape. A lot of these drag but that is because people use way too small sizes as they don't understand how poor the holding power is. Another common failure point on these is the staple/eye so you need to either use a large diameter rod or put a through hole which you put the chain through.
It is possible to construct a good 3 point mooring but you need to purchase 3 large anchors and understand the geometry (please ask if you are going to try this) or the system will fail. I consider this a good option for people who need a mooring that can be set and removed without large equipment but otherwise not as good.
With all of these types, your holding power improves with time so try to do any mooring work in the fall so that the anchor can sink in over the winter.
Your chain serves 2 purposes. The first is to connect the boat and anchor so it must be strong enough even in a corroded state to take the expected loads. The second is to provide shock absorption. Unfortunately, chain is not a great shock absorber for high loads so you either need really heavy chain or a long, shock absorbing pendant. At a minimum, I would use 1/2" bottom chain and 3/8" top chain but heavier won't hurt you and it will last a lot longer. Make sure that you use an absolute minimum of 2.5:1 scope for the highest tide you expect and 3:1 would be good if there is room (please don't crowd out the anchored boats though). For your bottom chain, you don't need galvanized if it sits in the mud most of the time but I would go galvy for your top chain.
In my opinion, most pendants are inadequate. The goal is the same as the chain, provide a strong connection and shock absorption. Nylon is an excellent shock absorber but not great with chafe. Chafe occurs because you have relative movement between the line and something like a rail with a lot of friction. To deal with this, you either need to use something like the Yale pendants that Hamiltons sells, you need to move your cleats to the rail (no distance=no stretch and no relative movement) or make a hybrid pendant. If I were going to do my mooring over again, I would make a very short dyneema (something like amsteel) pendant that goes from the cleat to just past the bow with eye splices in each end. You would then cow hitch this into a normal nylon pendant (make sure the sizes are the same). Research has showed almost no chafe at the connection between the lines and the dyneema will not chafe on the bow so you get a pendant with good chafe characteristics and good elasticity.
Hamiltons is a good resource for all of this and they have good guidance on shackles, swivels, balls, etc. Also, you might try to search some of the stuff that Maine Sail has written as he has generally good advice and pictures on this. Regarding just anchoring, I wouldn't do that as even new generation anchors don't handle the constant wind shifts as well as a mooring and they require a lot of scope and are hard to prevent chafe on.
Good luck, I hope that this is helpful.
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Sea Hunt Video
- Posts: 2561
- Joined: May 4th, '11, 19:03
- Location: Former caretaker S/V Bali Ha'i 1982 CD 25D; Hull 69 and S/V Tadpole Typhoon Week
Re: mooring gear
In Klem's post he referenced an article in BOAT U.S. Seaworthy magazine
If you do not subscribe to BOAT US, this is the website location for this article:
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazin ... orings.asp
The chart (Table 1) seems to support helical or Dor-Mar mooring anchors. I never heard of Dor-Mar mooring anchors before reading this article.
http://www.dor-mor.com/
Good luck with your project
If you do not subscribe to BOAT US, this is the website location for this article:
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazin ... orings.asp
The chart (Table 1) seems to support helical or Dor-Mar mooring anchors. I never heard of Dor-Mar mooring anchors before reading this article.
http://www.dor-mor.com/
Good luck with your project
Fair winds,
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
Roberto
a/k/a Sea Hunt "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
________________________________
"I wish to have no Connection with any Ship that does not Sail fast for I intend to go in harm's way." Captain John Paul Jones, 16 November 1778, as quoted in Naval History and Heritage Command, http://www.history.navy.mil
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mashenden
- Posts: 510
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Re: mooring gear
Several years back I thought I was going to do a mooring, and after a fair amount of research, decided that a Dor-Mor was the approach I would use. Then things changed so I did not do it (bought property with a dock - bad, BAD decision. The market turned the next day +/- Grrrrrrr)
I could not remember why I decided Dor-Mor was the best, but the previous post seems to support my recollection.
I could not remember why I decided Dor-Mor was the best, but the previous post seems to support my recollection.
Matt Ashenden
- I used to like boating and fixing stuff, then I bought a couple of boats and now I just fix stuff
Oh, and please check out my webpage... http://VaRivah.com
- I used to like boating and fixing stuff, then I bought a couple of boats and now I just fix stuff
Oh, and please check out my webpage... http://VaRivah.com
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Joe CD MS 300
- Posts: 995
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 16:18
- Location: Cape Dory Motor Sailor 300 / "Quest" / Linekin Bay - Boothbay Harbor
Re: mooring gear
If I'm not mistaken the Army Corp of Engineers has some kind of oversight of moorings in coastal areas not overseen by a harbor master. Probably an offshoot of their management of dredging in large harbors and coastal areas.
The Wesr Marine catalog used to have a diagram of a proper mooring system and sizing suggestions. Mainsail's website may also have some good information on the topic. I know he has posted here many times on the topic of mornings.
The Wesr Marine catalog used to have a diagram of a proper mooring system and sizing suggestions. Mainsail's website may also have some good information on the topic. I know he has posted here many times on the topic of mornings.
Better to find humility before humility finds you.
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Megunticook
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Sep 2nd, '12, 17:59
- Location: Cape Dory Typhoon Senior #11
Re: mooring gear
Thanks for the opinions and info. everyone.
That's right, Joe, Army Corps issues permits for moorings outside of town jurisdiction in Maine. I submitted an application last week. Hopefully by May I'll have a permit, but then again we're talking about the Federal Government here, so it might be May 2015!
Given the muddy bottom, at this point I'm thinking I'll go with a 250 lb. USA-made steel mushroom, and I'll just leave it in there once installed.
Will keep you posted when it's time to install.
This may not be in the budget this year--depends partly on how much I have to pay for the mooring gear in my home harbor (most likely will be offered someone's setup that's already installed). Last time I was offered one by the harbormaster it was going to run $700.
That's right, Joe, Army Corps issues permits for moorings outside of town jurisdiction in Maine. I submitted an application last week. Hopefully by May I'll have a permit, but then again we're talking about the Federal Government here, so it might be May 2015!
Given the muddy bottom, at this point I'm thinking I'll go with a 250 lb. USA-made steel mushroom, and I'll just leave it in there once installed.
Will keep you posted when it's time to install.
This may not be in the budget this year--depends partly on how much I have to pay for the mooring gear in my home harbor (most likely will be offered someone's setup that's already installed). Last time I was offered one by the harbormaster it was going to run $700.
Re: mooring gear
For what it's worth the town of Barnstable (Cape Cod) has the following requirements for mushroom moorings:
18-21 ft boat - 150 lb mushroom, 1/2" bottom, 3/8" top, 5/8" pennant
22-25 ft boat - 200 lb mushroom, 5/8" bottom, 1/2" top, 5/8" pennant
26-31 ft boat - 250 lb mushroom, 5/8" bottom, 1/2" top, 3/4" pennant
From my experience the cost of the heavier mushroom is minimal and worth going to the heavier side however the chain is the most expensive part and you were way over the top with the 3/4 inch so there is a lot of money to save there.
Good luck
18-21 ft boat - 150 lb mushroom, 1/2" bottom, 3/8" top, 5/8" pennant
22-25 ft boat - 200 lb mushroom, 5/8" bottom, 1/2" top, 5/8" pennant
26-31 ft boat - 250 lb mushroom, 5/8" bottom, 1/2" top, 3/4" pennant
From my experience the cost of the heavier mushroom is minimal and worth going to the heavier side however the chain is the most expensive part and you were way over the top with the 3/4 inch so there is a lot of money to save there.
Good luck
Re: mooring gear
I forgot to mention when I was moored in an open area in Naraganset bay years ago I put on 10' of destroyer chain (10 lbs/ft) on the end of the shank which provided great surge protection and kept the shank of the mushroom down and the cup digging in. My 4500 lb 24' Yankee Dolphin rode out two hurricanes on that mooring
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Neil Gordon
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- Contact:
Re: 3/4 inch chain for a Ty?
Sure, but what are the odds that a way larger "guest" picks up the mooring when you're not around?Carl Thunberg wrote:3/4 inch chain for a Ty seems like WAY OVERKILL in a protected harbor.
Fair winds, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
Boston, MA
CDSOA member #698
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John Stone
- Posts: 3621
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Re: mooring gear
Megunticook,
A great resource for these kinds of questions is Practical Sailor. They have a terrific data base of past article and do a great job of testing equipment and techniques. There is no advertising so you get pretty good information as long as they test properly. And if nothing else, PS arms you with information that you can use to get a better understanding of how to develop a solution. It requires a membership but it isn't much. Something to consider. Local expertise, especially in Maine would also serve you well I would think.
Good luck.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11287-1.html
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/ ... 921-1.html
A great resource for these kinds of questions is Practical Sailor. They have a terrific data base of past article and do a great job of testing equipment and techniques. There is no advertising so you get pretty good information as long as they test properly. And if nothing else, PS arms you with information that you can use to get a better understanding of how to develop a solution. It requires a membership but it isn't much. Something to consider. Local expertise, especially in Maine would also serve you well I would think.
Good luck.
http://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/-11287-1.html
http://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/ ... 921-1.html