Tiller slips on rudder post

[nscotia]

While my typhoon is on the hard, I am thinking of doing something to the rudder post so that my tiller won't slip on it. The set screw seems to loosen from time to time, which is not good in heavy blows. Any suggestions?

[Russell]

While my typhoon is on the hard, I am thinking of doing something to the rudder post so that my tiller won't slip on it. The set screw seems to loosen from time to time, which is not good in heavy blows. Any suggestions?

It doesnt have a key? That suprises me, as that would seem proper. Of course dropping the rudder and lugging it to a machine shop to have one added wouldnt be very practical.

[Klem]

When you say slip, does it simply move along the shaft or does the shaft rotate under it? In general, set screws are not good at transmitting torque on a shaft of any size. The preferred method would be a key although a shear pin can also be used if the application calls for one.

There are many ways to keep a set screw or bolt from backing out. The first one is to properly torque it so that the threads will lock due to friction. So that the preload is maintained after you torque it, you need to make sure that the set screw is properly aligned with any dimples (it should definitely go into one). The next thing to do would be to put a nut on the outside of the set screw and torque that so that you are sure the preload will be maintaine and friction works. If none of that works, you could think about loctite. Loctite blue is reversable but loctite red really grabs and takes a lot to undo. Finally, if none of that works, you can drill and safety wire or pin.

[nscotia]

When the set screw is good and tight against the rudder post, tiller and rudder work in harmony. But the set screw looses its grip eventually and the tiller becomes very ineffective in turning the boat. The rudder looks like past owners have tried to drill an indentation, but it's not very effective. I like your idea of putting on a nut. The best solution would be for me to drill out a hole in the rudder post deep enough for the set screw to take hold and add the nut. Little nervous about trying to get a drill bit to work in the post.

[Gary M]

The rudder post should have a key way.

You may be missing the key.

Maybe the post has been replaced and no key way was installed in the new post.

Good Luck with it.

[Steve Laume]

The key is the key.

Before you start drilling and modifying things I would look for the key. This is easy to replace if it is missing and should solve all of your problems. As for the set screws, I would tighten them down in the normal fashion but use some lock tight on the threads to make sure they stay put.

You have a well designed boat with great fittings that should work as intended if all the pieces are in place, Steve.

[nscotia]

okay, what does a key way look like? If I don't have one….where would I find one?
appreciate your help

[hilbert]

A keyway is a rectangular depression in a shaft that the key fits into.

Stainless key stock can be purchased at McMaster-Carr among others.


http://www.mcmaster.com/#machine-keys/=qckw67

[Gary M]

You can find the Ty manual on this site. Look at the top of the page and click on "About Cape Dorys," then navigate your way to the Ty manual.

It shows you where it should be, which is at the top of the rudder post. You should have a key way in the post and a key way in the bracket the connects your tiller to the post. With the proper key in this key way it will be impossible for your tiller to slip.

(You have to remove the tiller and its bracket to find the key way.)

Good Luck

[nscotia]

thanks for the help! Off to the typhoon…when weather warms a little…this weekend and check it out. I was trying to tighten down the tiller with set screw….that would go in key way in front. No wonder I had a problem. Hopefully the key way on the back of the rudder post is still okay. I think I can get the right key from rig rite.

[bamabratsche]

I was also missing the key on mine when I first got the boat, so I called Spartan to see if I could get a replacement from them. They said they no longer provide replacement keys because at this point the keyways are often so worn that the original size no longer fits well. I tried a couple of different sizes of off-the-shelf key stock, but was never able to find one that fit either. I guess the lesson is that sometimes things have been modified for a reason.

I ended up just torquing the set screw down pretty well, and have not had any issues with it during the two years since. As you can see, though, some previous owner was able to turn the bottom of the keyway into a decent-sized dimple for the screw to rest in, so that is probably the "key" to making that approach work. Bottom photo shows the set screw on the tiller cap.

[nscotia]

My rudder head looks just like yours. My rudder is 3/4 inches and has a small flattened area in front with a dimple in it that a previous owner must have put in. In talking with the folks at SailIthaca.com, they suggest i drill a hole all the way thru. Start with a small bit and work up to a larger one. The set screw is a 1/4 inch and they say don't try and drill that big a hole thru as it would be too big. I'm not comfortable putting a smaller bolt all the way thru. I think Ill try to do what you show in your picture…that is put a 1/4 inch hole maybe 3/16 deep and screw the set screw in really deep. put locktite on the set screw?

[Joe Mac Phee]

It is your boat and, of course, you can do with it as you see fit.

If it were my boat, I would restore it to the way it was designed to work.

The key is there to prevent the shaft from rotating inside the tiller head casting, the problem you are concernrd about. The set screw is there to prevent the whole casting from pulling off the shaft. It was designed to have both.

The key can be found in most hardware stores. My local ACE hardware has them. They sell "key stock", which is a long key that you can cut to length for your application. You can measure the shaft or the casting to determine the width of the key that you need. If the key slot is really messed up, it can be cleaned up with a file.

Good luck with your Ty, it is a great boat and stay warm (from frigid New England).

Joe Mac Phee

[mashenden]

...If it were my boat, I would restore it to the way it was designed to work.

The key is there to prevent the shaft from rotating inside the tiller head casting, the problem you are concernrd about. The set screw is there to prevent the whole casting from pulling off the shaft. It was designed to have both.

The key can be found in most hardware stores. ...

I second that (assuming that did not mean an extreme like replacing the rudder).

It may be worth mentioning that not long ago our local Lowes replaced their special hardware section (the area with stacks of metal pull out drawers full of unique things). I don't know if they always had keys available, but I did notice there were a variety of keys in the new supply that was just put in.

[Ron M.]

Applications are engineered for a reason so I concur with Joe. If you are handy with a dremel and grinding disc you can improve the keyway, or file it.
An oversized key can easily be adjusted with a file to fit.