CD 33 Wheel to/vs Tiller

[florimar]

I haven't seen this topic in the files so I'm asking for advice. I am looking to buy a CD33. Long story short, one of the contenders has what appears to be a very rusty cross-member (?) or brace across the aft section of the steering quadrant. Firstly, it looks tough to access - perhaps an access panel is possible -. Does anyone have a CD33 with a tiller? Does a CD33 with a tiller "feel" right? I like tillers, but it seems rare to find them on large boats. Is this rusted bracing a common issue? Is it a difficult fix other than the obvious close quarters? I have heard it said to buy the best boat you can afford. I get that, but I know I like working on systems and learning as much as possible. What's a buyer to do? A surveyor just looked at it and says he thinks it is a very costly major repair...yep, very helpful.
I appreciate any advice and thank all of you who make this website so wonderful. I hope to become an owner and member.
Happy New Year and good sailing to all..
Markus

[tjr818]

A surveyor just looked at it and says he thinks it is a very costly major repair...yep, very helpful.

If no other help, he certainly gave you a great bargaining chip!

[Oswego John]

Of course, we would have to see the problem or see a set of very clear pictures to assess the severity of the rusty cross member.

The first thought that came to mind was that the owner felt that fixing it himself was beyond his ability and when he received an estimate(s), he decided that selling the boat was the easiest way out for him.

You, or an experienced person, might investigate the rusted cross member farther to determine the severity of the rust. Is it a surface rust or does the corrosion penetrate into the steel and thus weaken it?

The rudder system with all of its components is very important. Did the surveyor give you a ballpark figure for the cost of repair? Add to that the cost of installing an access panel. Maybe most buyers have been a little gun shy about buying this vessel. The rust may very well be a bargaining point in the purchase price.

There are a lot of other boats waiting to be sold. It is a buyer's market.

Good luck,
O J

[Russell]

I haven't seen this topic in the files so I'm asking for advice. I am looking to buy a CD33. Long story short, one of the contenders has what appears to be a very rusty cross-member (?) or brace across the aft section of the steering quadrant. Firstly, it looks tough to access - perhaps an access panel is possible -. Does anyone have a CD33 with a tiller? Does a CD33 with a tiller "feel" right? I like tillers, but it seems rare to find them on large boats. Is this rusted bracing a common issue? Is it a difficult fix other than the obvious close quarters? I have heard it said to buy the best boat you can afford. I get that, but I know I like working on systems and learning as much as possible. What's a buyer to do? A surveyor just looked at it and says he thinks it is a very costly major repair...yep, very helpful.
I appreciate any advice and thank all of you who make this website so wonderful. I hope to become an owner and member.
Happy New Year and good sailing to all..
Markus

My CD36 has the same mild steel cross member. Fortunately very little rust so far though. But I recently had to remove it in order to replace the rudder stuffing box hose, so I can give you some insight to how difficult it is to remove. You have to removing the steering cable and the quadrent, then its 4 bolts on each side of the cross member. Once the bolts are removed its a tight fit, so a rubber mallet is needed to bang it out a bit before it comes loose. On the CD36 it is a tight space to work in under the cockpit, I cant imagine the CD33 is better, probably a little worse, but I was able to do it (I am 6' and 185). Removal was a full afternoon, putting it back together was another afternoon.

If yours needs replacement, once removed, it should be rather easy to take the old rusty one to a fabcricator for replicating. I really cannot see any reason it should be classified as a "very costly and major repair", especially if doing the work yourself. I think a tiller conversion would cost far more.

[Neil Gordon]

Here we go...

>> Does a CD33 with a tiller "feel" right?<<

The largest vessel I've ever steered with a tiller is 106' overall ...



The tiller feels pretty good, because it's sized to the boat, but as the wind picks up, one person's not enough. Also, from hard left to hard right is quite a wide sweep and the after deck is not exactly passenger friendly.

A right sized tiller would do just fine on a CD33, I suspect.

[Jim Walsh]

Maybe it's just me but I find that clenched fist at the end of the tiller kind of creepy. I'd have amputated it were the vessel mine.

[pete faga]

Neil
Clearwater's tiller?

[Neil Gordon]

Yes, it's Clearwater's tiller. http://www.clearwater.org

From a Google search: Clenched fist a.k.a. The raised fist is a symbol of solidarity and support. It is also used as a salute to express unity, strength, defiance, or resistance. The salute dates back to ancient Assyria as a symbol of resistance in the face of violence.

[pete faga]

Thanks Neil. Hope you got to talk to Pete! Dynamic man.

[Neil Gordon]

Thanks Neil. Hope you got to talk to Pete! Dynamic man.

My last volunteer week, which ended on October 31, started one day too late. Pete was on board the Saturday before; I arrived Sunday morning. Maybe next time.

[Maine_Buzzard]

My 30 feels good with a tiller, particularly because the increase in pressure when the wind hits 16+ reminds me to reef the main and think about pulling in the 150 a bit. Not too difficult, but I will admit one downside...

My neck gets sore if I go a whole day sitting sideways and looking forwards. My next big boat will be a wheel. I thought of converting, by won't drop the hammer on another 200 hour job...

You do have a better feel for the water, it's actually easier for noobs, and a tiller is better for a daysail. If we cruised more, I'd be quick to install a windvane, which might be the best answer. I tolerate the autopilot for motoring only.

[Paul D.]

I would double check to see what "rusty" really means. It is a mild steel weldment and could be cleaned up, painted and good for another 25 years if it is surface rust only. Not a very fun job but not major. The surveyor's words are to be considered however. I would still double check myself. Lately there have been several 33's on the market covering the spectrum of condition. Unless this boat had everything else I wanted I wouldn't go for it if the steering is questionable. Nor would I move it to a tiller because I'd want to make a proper rudder post bearing at the cockpit sole level where there is none now, complicating a changeover project.

This spring, I am replacing the steering chain/cable this year and double checking the whole system. Femme is 31 years old and there is only minor surface rusting on the steel parts of her. Places to check thoroughly with a bright light include that steering system, the motor mount foundation, weldments under the cabin sole and the chain plate weldments. I am 6' and can get down under the cockpit through the port cockpit locker, would die for a proper access there like in the Pacific Seacrafts though. Dream about it some times. Squeezing down there keeps me young and I consider it a joy of boat ownership, sort of like scraping teak, but this is another post.

Below is what the weldment should look like, though maybe with a cleaner bilge and more tidy wires.

[Russell]

I would double check to see what "rusty" really means. It is a mild steel weldment and could be cleaned up, painted and good for another 25 years if it is surface rust only. Not a very fun job but not major. The surveyor's words are to be considered however. I would still double check myself. Lately there have been several 33's on the market covering the spectrum of condition. Unless this boat had everything else I wanted I wouldn't go for it if the steering is questionable. Nor would I move it to a tiller because I'd want to make a proper rudder post bearing at the cockpit sole level where there is none now, complicating a changeover project.

This spring, I am replacing the steering chain/cable this year and double checking the whole system. Femme is 31 years old and there is only minor surface rusting on the steel parts of her. Places to check thoroughly with a bright light include that steering system, the motor mount foundation, weldments under the cabin sole and the chain plate weldments. I am 6' and can get down under the cockpit through the port cockpit locker, would die for a proper access there like in the Pacific Seacrafts though. Dream about it some times. Squeezing down there keeps me young and I consider it a joy of boat ownership, sort of like scraping teak, but this is another post.

Below is what the weldment should look like, though maybe with a cleaner bilge and more tidy wires.

Most of us dont have freshwater boats, honestly it can look far far worse then that and still be fine (and most CDs do look far far worse then that). But in a saltwater boat, where more surface corrosion is expected, you have to be much more careful and inspect much closer, this goes for everything.

[John Stone]

Markus,
I converted my CD 36 from a wheel to tiller. It sounds like you are describing the steel cross beam that supported the pillow block at the top of the rudder post. Mine was rusty too. It was also serviceable. I removed it, cleaned it up, painted it, replaced the self aligning bearing, reinstalled it and incorporated it into the new tiller system.

Neither it nor the steel "H" frame (part of the pedestal steering system which I tossed) was that hard to remove though to be fair I did have the engine out of the boat. If you plan to convert to a tiller it really doesn't matter what kind of shape the "H" frame is in since you won't need it anyway. Converting to a tiller is not a small project and it is not cheap. An Edson coupler and tiller head and a short rudder post extension will run you about $750-$1000 depending on the size. Making the tiller was easy and cost about $40.

These are good boats but they have a few faults--all boats do. The CD faults are all documented on the forum and most are not that difficult to deal with. Many can be managed with only a little effort. All can be corrected, if and when necessary. Proactive attention is always easier in the long run.

If interested, you can read more about the tiller conversion here here. http://www.farreachvoyages.com/projects ... rsion.html

Good luck.

[Paul D.]

Thanks Russell for your account of other boats H bars looking worse. Makes me feel good about Femme instead of worry, always a good thing.

Reading these last few posts reminds me that going from a wheel to a tiller or vice versa is a personal sailor's preference and there are a few factors I would seriously consider before undertaking a project such as this.

• -How I would plan to sail the boat i.e. day sail vs longer voyages or living aboard, long cruise
  -How long I plan to keep her
  -Cost
  -Time involved and who does the labour
  -Resale value, not an insignificant factor - here I would ask a few brokers their thoughts. All of these models came with a wheel so a tiller puts it out of the norm. A sophisticated buyer will tell if the job was done correctly or not, but the average guy may find it harder to purchase a boat so retrofitted. I would consider the very real possibility of selling long before you plan. It happens a great deal.

Good luck and let us know what you decide. I am always interested in other 33 owners experiences as I really, truly love this design. Full disclosure, I am rather biased.