bilge ice

[Megunticook]

Just prior to covering my Ty senior this fall I made sure the bilge was bone-dry. Checked the cabin this weekend, so checked the bilge and to my surprise a small bit of ice down there. I'd guess between a pint and a quart of ice, just enough to fill that final "pocket" at the very bottom.

First, is this at all an issue in terms of exerting pressure on the fiberglass hull from the expanding ice? Seeing as how stout all those fiberglass layers are--my impression is Cape Dory hulls are pretty thick and heavy--I'm assuming it isn't an issue but if so I guess I need to go in there and thaw it/remove.

Secondly, how did that water get in there? We had a violently windy rainstorm just before I checked it, but there were no signs of water entering the cabin. I did notice during the storm some weeping from one of the cockpit drain through-hulls, turns out the tarp was leaking in the heavy rain. But how did the water make its way into the bilge? No sign of water/ice in the cockpit lockers, and none in the cabin.

Condensation?

I did change the cockpit drain hoses earlier this fall, and haven't finished clamping the top of one hose, but I didn't see any sign of leakage there the day after the storm. But that would be one explanation.

[Neil Gordon]

Water is sneaky and somehow it manages to get inside the boat. I always feel a lot better having poured some anti-freeze into the bilge. It's easy enough to pump it out in the Spring.

[casampson]

I plumb forgot to pump out my bilge after hauling our Typhoon, which I did the first weekend in November. Then we got an early cold snap and, to my dismay and embarassment, I ended up with an inch or so of ice in the bilge. Fortunately, it was relatively warm this weekend, so most of it melted and I was able to pump it out. Nevertheless, I am also curious about what negative effects there may be from a frozen bilge.

[John Ring]

You can always boil some water on the stove, then pour it down the bilge to melt bilge ice. Once melted & pumped out, I'd pour some antifreeze down there, then run it up through the bilge pumps. As Neil said, leave a little antifreeze in the bilge for the next batch of rainwater that finds its way down there.

John

[Neil Gordon]

First, is this at all an issue in terms of exerting pressure on the fiberglass hull from the expanding ice? Seeing as how stout all those fiberglass layers are--my impression is Cape Dory hulls are pretty thick and heavy--I'm assuming it isn't an issue

Water expands about 9% as it freezes, with sufficient force to crack boulders.

My bilge also includes an electric bilge pump and float switch, which I'm sure are happier when they're ice free.

Note: I turn the automatic switch OFF as soon as the boat is out of the water... otherwise it doesn't take that much rain water, mixed with the antifreeze, to cycle the pump and remove the antifreeze protection.

[Shelby]

A few years ago, due to circumstances out of my control, my open Daysailer was trapped in our city lake for the winter. This lake has to have water pumped into it to maintain useable water levels, and it is Oklahoma Citys main water supply. So we suffer from what we call a serious, slow ebb tide, till the city takes a release from an up stream lake. This ususally happens in the spring and the fall, but unknown to the lake boaters, the city had decided not to take the fall release bringing the lake up to near full levels, and the city did not send out the notices to the boat owners! So when it came time to pull boats for the winter, as many do, the ramps to do so, were unusable.
Now my open Typhoon does have an automatic bilge pump, but it obviously will not work if frozen in bilge water. And it will rain and snow, filling my boat, and the fear of damage from a hard freeze, which we do get here in OKC.
Using antifreeze would not work, since it would be pumped out whenever it rained/snowed. After a lot of research, I settled on a birdbath heater, that was self regulating, coming on only when water approached freezing. It worked out just fine, each time we walked out and checked the boat, which was sitting upright on its keel, in its slip, the bigle pump was keeping water out, and what little that remained never froze.

[Megunticook]

I realize the force of freezing water is very strong, I just have heard conflicting things about whether a little water in the bottom of a bilge is going to cause any structural problems with the hull.

Seems like when you freeze liquids in a glass mason jar, if you leave plenty of headspace in the jar for expansion the ice won't crack the glass. I could be wrong about that though.

Should I thaw out that ice and get rid of the water, then pour some antifreeze in there? Or just let it be?

Suppose I could heat up a quart or so of antifreeze and add that, it might melt the ice and create a mixture that wouldn't freeze again.

[Steve Laume]

I doubt that a couple of inches of water in the bilge will have any negative effects. The bilge slopes away to give lots of room for expansion and it just isn't that much water to start with. If it filled up then all bets are off, Steve.

[David van den Burgh]

I realize the force of freezing water is very strong, I just have heard conflicting things about whether a little water in the bottom of a bilge is going to cause any structural problems with the hull.

Warm things up and dump in plenty of antifreeze. You'll sleep better. I doubt a little water in the bilge will do any damage, but the peace of mind is cheap enough.

In the FWIW department, I have seen a Pearson Ensign that had water trapped in the bilge. The water migrated under the bilge floor into the keel area and froze. The pressure cracked the floor of the bilge. The only cure for that - other than keeping the water out in the first place and ensuring that the bilge was well-sealed - would be to drill holes in the keel area to allow the water trapped beneath the bilge floor to drain out of the voids, which I did.

I'm not suggesting that you need to worry about that - it's just a worse-case scenario.

[Megunticook]

This wild winter took another turn today in Maine, where the temperature shot up to over 50 here near the coast. Took the opportunity to remove the ice from the bilge--it was about a gallon of water, all told, and was half melted (after a solid month of cold and extreme subzero cold earlier this week--I'm surprised it melted so quickly.

Anyway, before dumping in a gallon of RV antifreeze (pink stuff, says good to -50F), I looked carefully at the gelcoat. The gel on the bottom of the lowest "pocket" at the very rear of the bilge, which holds a little less than a gallon of water, had cracks running all through it. Nothing was loose, and no pieces were missing. I really doubt that the ice I just pulled out did that, although I'm sure freezing water in those cracks can worsen them. But should I address this in the spring with some gelcoat repair? Or do I not have to worry about moisture getting into the laminate?

Tonight it's supposed to be even deeper into the subzero range than it was earlier--what a winter!

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tonight it's supposed to be even deeper into the subzero range than it was earlier--what a winter!

I feel your pain. We are expecting temps in the low 40s tonight and into tomorrow morning We do not expect Biscayne Bay to freeze over but one never knows for sure.

I did not put any antifreeze in the bilge or water tank. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

I will be sleeping in sweatpants, sweatshirt, socks, a wool blanket and possibly a wool watch cap tonight. Coldest night of the winter season to date.

[Neil Gordon]

We are expecting temps in the low 40s tonight and into tomorrow morning We do not expect Biscayne Bay to freeze over but one never knows for sure.

I did not put any antifreeze in the bilge or water tank. I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Perhaps you slept through that class, but water tends not to freeze unless the temperature drops to 32 or below.

[Steve Laume]

That's all right Robert, you go right ahead and suffer with the rest of us. It was, like 10 below the other night and is headed back into the single digits with highs in the low teens.

I feel your pain, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Perhaps you slept through that class, but water tends not to freeze unless the temperature drops to 32 or below.

Neil:

It is true, I did sleep through a lot of classes (or more accurately skipped them altogether). Having done my share of cold water immersions and diving, when it came to water and its effect on an immersed body I perked right up. Actually, I think salt water (think Biscayne Bay) begins to freeze at even a lower temp than fresh water. Thus, the use of the "Wink Smilie" I think its a "density" issue. Whatever happens on the Bay, I will be shivering in my woolies at home in the am. I also plan on consuming some "medicinal" Cognac - warmed to a proper temp.

I got two of the new halyards installed today and hope to finish the installation of the remaining halyard and topping lift tomorrow. I am happy I picked solid colors. Really makes a difference.

Neil, I doubt there is any of that single malt left but, if any, I would recommend a small "medicinal" prescription to deal with the temps in Boston area tonight (10-15 degree lows).

[Oswego John]

Robert

Temp going down to the low 40s? Oy veh. Truly a time to don your sailors socks.

About 3/16" north me on the map, on the east end of Lake Ontario, is a place called the Tug Hill Plateau. A day in advance, the govenor has announced that Interstate 81 will be closed down tonight to all traffic north of Syracuse to Watertown, up near the St Lawrence River.

Wind chill is expected to be around -60° and the weather guy forcasts between 4' and 6' of snow. No, that is no misprint, 4 to 6 *FEET* of snow before tomorrow evening.

Yikes, I think that I better put on a pair of pairs of sailors socks. The last thing on my mind is a quart of water (hard water) in my bilge.

Think spring,
O J