One of the dangers of being "thethered" to your sailboat

[Russell]

polypropylene is a terrible choice for jacklines! Or any use on a boat! Of all the materials it has one of the worst resistances to UV exposure, its strength is reduced drastically and quickly with time in the sun.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Neil, Tim, Russell and all:

I should have been more detailed in my post. I was looking at the 2" material for a jackline as suggested by Randy B. in his recent post.

Neil, I agree with the concerns you raised. I was primarily looking at the 2" polyester line. The breaking strength is 6,000 lbs.; the working load is 2,000 lbs.

Russell, I was also surprised to see polypropylene line used as jack lines. However, the strapworks.com website says that their polypropylene line:

". . . is great for outdoor applications. It is available in 2 styles: Heavyweight, and Lightweight. Polypropylene has excellent UV protection, and it does not absorb water, giving it resistance to mildew and rot. It has low stretch, especially when wet." It does caution against it not having "high abrasion resistence".

Neil, I agree that "knots" weaken a line (any line). However, in order to be able to "tighten up" a jack line that may stretch even a little, I think one of the jack line ends has to be secured with a cleat hitch or other knot.

I would be grateful for additional thoughts, comments, etc. on jack lines (mfg., material, etc.) actually being used on Cape Dory sailboats.

By the way, for those interested:

Miami 23

NY Jets 3

[Sea Hunt Video]

Found this interesting website section on jack lines:

http://www.hathaways.com/exclusives/jacklines.asp

Anyone in the New England area familiar with this company - Hathaway Reiser & Raymond in Stamford, Conn.

[Steve Laume]

I think my lines are 1" polyester. I don't know if the tether clips would slide as easily along a wider webbing. I would not have any interruption in the lead from bow to stern. No way would I want to have to unclip and and then clip in again on the other side just to get to the bow. I leave the long tether hooked to the jack line no matter what and then clip the short to something wherever I am working. You don't ever want both of them unclipped if you really need em, Steve.

[Dick Kobayashi]

I have thought about this a lot and have concluded that

- I can't get back on Susan B unaided, and only with difficulty if aided.

- Jacklines for me should run from the aft corners of the cabin top to the mast (that would be two separate lines) plus perhaps another from mast to foredeck

- The jackline configuration plus relatively short tether(s) should keep me aboard.

The identified problem is that with a dodger - you need to be passed the dodger to clip on, but this seems to be not that big a deal (theoretically).

Basically I favor a system that keeps me more or less attached to the centerline of the boat when on deck.

As time passes (and as a consequence, I age) I am becoming more sensitive to the need for safety supports like jacklines and such...but basically, I hate them.

[tjr818]

I have thought about this a lot and have concluded that

- I can't get back on Susan B unaided, and only with difficulty if aided.

- Jacklines for me should run from the aft corners of the cabin top to the mast (that would be two separate lines) plus perhaps another from mast to foredeck

- The jackline configuration plus relatively short tether(s) should keep me aboard.

The identified problem is that with a dodger - you need to be passed the dodger to clip on, but this seems to be not that big a deal (theoretically).

Basically I favor a system that keeps me more or less attached to the centerline of the boat when on deck.

As time passes (and as a consequence, I age) I am becoming more sensitive to the need for safety supports like jacklines and such...but basically, I hate them.

Having watched my sailboat sail away while I was treading water, I found a new respect for jacklines. Luckily, for me, this happened on a lake, in the summer, during a race. I had my life jacket on and I watched as some friends chased after my boat (they are pretty fast when unmaned). They retrieved the boat, brought it back to me and laughed the whole time. I did not laugh.
I think of that everytime I go to the mast while single handing.

[Steve Laume]

I have thought about this a lot and have concluded that

- I can't get back on Susan B unaided, and only with difficulty if aided.

That is exactly why we need tethers and jack lines.

- Jacklines for me should run from the aft corners of the cabin top to the mast (that would be two separate lines) plus perhaps another from mast to foredeck

If you run them tight along the side decks you can go all the way forward without unclipping and usually without the tether clip getting hung up on anything. The distance from the mast to the foredeck is short and by keeping the jack line down low it adds to your security. If the jack line is up on the cabin top you are going to be getting hung up on all sorts of stuff. I always figure I will get tossed to the low side and a centered jack line is not going necessarily going to keep you from going over the life lines.

- The jackline configuration plus relatively short tether(s) should keep me aboard.

I use my short tether a lot. You can clip to things that allow you to lean back into it while working. This makes for a very secure stance.

The identified problem is that with a dodger - you need to be passed the dodger to clip on, but this seems to be not that big a deal (theoretically).

I like to be able to sit in the cockpit and clip into the jack lines before I stand up to go forward. Moving from the cockpit to the side deck is the most dangerous area.

Basically I favor a system that keeps me more or less attached to the centerline of the boat when on deck.

I always feel like the low side is my enemy. Clipping into the high side will keep you away from it.

As time passes (and as a consequence, I age) I am becoming more sensitive to the need for safety supports like jacklines and such...but basically, I hate them.

I don't mind the tethers but hate to put on the harness. It reminds me of a carpenters tool belt. When you strap it on, it means you are working, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

...but basically, I hate them.

What I'm thinking is that they feel unnatural because we don't use them often enough.

[Neil Gordon]

I don't mind the tethers but hate to put on the harness. It reminds me of a carpenters tool belt. When you strap it on, it means you are working, Steve.

My harness is built into my inflatable vest, so it's always there. The downside is that is also always heavier than it otherwise would be.

Steve... enough time in therapy and you'll reverse the play/work thing... then every time you strap on the tool belt it will remind you of sailing.

[NateHanson]

The other end of the line would not have a "loop" and would be secured to the stern cleat with a cleat hitch.

Generally, it's a better idea to terminate the jack line near the front of the cockpit, rather than at the stern. That way you can still clip into the line before leaving the cockpit, but if you go overboard on a 6 foot tether, you won't be dragged helplessly 3 feet behind the stern, unable to grab anything to haul yourself back aboard.

[Steve Laume]

My jack lines terminate at a pad eye just forward of the stern cleats. I think that if I went over the safety line, which are 2' off the deck and then back down to the water, I would be right at the stern. At that point I should be able to grab onto the wind vane frame or the stern pulpit and try to get back on board. It is far more important not to end up in the water in the first place.

Niel, I think my harness issues will be way down the list if I ever seek out therapy. I do like the idea of trying to equate the tool belt to sailing though.

The harness is annoying when you are bare chested and slightly sun burnt. I hate to have to change it around when putting on another layer of clothes or taking them off for that matter. When I sleep at night, I take if off and lay it out on the unused bunk, ready to slip into before going up on deck beyond the cockpit. Sometimes it is sitting there waiting for me all nice and wet from earlier in the day. Then it is kind of like putting on a wet suit that hasn't dried since the last time you used it.

It is a love hate relationship I have with the thing. Even if I don't want to put it on, I still force myself for the sake of those I left at home, Steve.

[tjr818]

My jack lines terminate at a pad eye just forward of the stern cleats. I think that if I went over the safety line, which are 2' off the deck and then back down to the water, I would be right at the stern. At that point I should be able to grab onto the wind vane frame or the stern pulpit and try to get back on board. It is far more important not to end up in the water in the first place.

What if you went under the safety line? And what if the motor was running and the propeller turning?

I wish I hadn't thought of that Now I have something else to worry about.

[rorik]

I think I posted this earlier in this thread, but, I'm too lazy to go find it....

My little brain says that the further you are from the centerline of the boat when you trip and fall, the more likely you are to go over/under/through the lifelines and into the water - even if it's only your feet that get wet, it's still not a position in which you want to find yourself.

So, in the interest of staying as close as possible to the centerline:

My jack lines are 1/4" Amsteel (6700#SWL) inside 1" hollow webbing. Ends are spliced with locking brummel and stitched.

There are two jack lines - one each, port and starboard.
One end of each jack line goes around the foredeck cleat, through the original bronze pad eye next to the mast on the coachroof, and then terminates on an identical eye about a foot forward of the aft bulkhead between the handrail and the companionway slide.

There are two folding Wichard pad eyes in the cockpit, one at each end. The forward one is through bolted to the forward side of the bulkhead inside the cabin. There is a filler block between the forward side of the cockpit and the aft face of the bulkhead. The aft one just has a big damn Iroko backing plate epoxied in place.

The tethers attached to my Spinlock Deckvest are long enough so that I can reach anything/everything at the edges of the boat but short enough so that I can't go any further than the edge.

[Astronomertoo]

Gentlemen,
I am seeing good answers here and would like to add a few comments. I just retired from the nuclear power industry (engineering) and will now, finally, have time to start getting our "new" old neglected 1975 CD25 back into sailing condition.
One of the things all nuclear workers who go into the field must do is the yearly requal and be tested on using fall prevention gear. That includes not just the latest approved harnesses and hardware, but how and where to snap onto approved attachment points. We were trained to prevent falls first, and how to recover from a safe fall last. Our 5000 pound harnesses have the lanyard point at the top rear so we can be rescued. The full body harness is set up to hold you for as long as it takes to be rescued, because you usually can not recover yourself. However, it is well known that hanging in a full harness for 20 minutes will cause stagnant blood to pool such that your circulatory health is in danger, so quick rescue is imperative. We are requred to inspect for damage and use a full harness if we could possibly fall 6 ft, because that is all it takes for a serious injury. All harness configs incorporate a freefall shock absorber lanyard to decelerate any actual fall to prevent sudden stops which can break your back or neck, and/or to use a self-retracting lanyard to prevent or recover from a fall or slip. The rule in climbing is to always snap-on to an approved (strong) attachment point ABOVE you to limit the fall. The hot number is 6 ft. However, it does no good to snap-on below you with a 6 ft lanyard, then fall or be tossed 12 feet! Most of that will not help you on a boat. However,
Where I find the training appropriate for a boat at sea is to NEVER allow yourself the length of unexpected motion to be thrown 6 ft of more out of control, or out of the boat. On a boat, like climbing steel in a plant, you do not want to be thrown into, or fall into danger--or in a boat--overboard. Think prevention. It is your life at stake, not the boat. Design your safety lines such that your lanyard will not allow you to go over the lifelines, anywhere. Also consider flat webbing of higher strength with engineered attachment loops for the deck lines rather than polypro. Also keep in mind the strength loss due to solar UV and mold/mildew deterrioration effects when stored damp in dark storage location. You can use a 6 foot lanyard sliding on the deck line, and a second, shorter 3 foot lanyard at a padeye bolted near places where you must work, like at the anchor, or a padeye intentionally located near or above the mast mounted halyard winches. I have always installed a thru bolted pad eye right outside the companionway, and immediately below the steering station seat, and never intend to unexpectedly find out how cold it is in the ocean.
One more thought, the time to put on a harness is before you need it, and get used to snapping on before you might need it. A quick walkdown with a fresh viewpoint will show you places you might consider adding a new pad eye which might save your life on a bad day.
I wish you all well, and safe, Happy Holidays.
BobC
Moon Shine
Citrus Springs FL

[Oswego John]

Here are a few thoughts that I have on the use of a harness and tether while sailing. I offer them to you whether you agree with them in whole or in part. I'm just stating my personal thoughts.

Bob C, Astronomertoo brings up some interesting points that I agree with.

Anyway, here's my drill. Most of my relaxational sailing is on my Typhoon. For the most part, it is done in Oswego Harbour which is about a mile or so wide and long. It is totally surrounded by a huge, rock breakwall. It is similar to sailing on a lake. No matter which direction the wind is blowing, if trouble arises, chances are that I will end up on a lee shore. Like Robert has mentioned, when sailing on local waters, I dont wear a harness and tether. However, anyone on my boat does wear a PFD.

Because of my religious beliefs, I no longer sail in rough, stormy conditions. At my advanced age, I have now converted into becoming a devout coward. I just don't have the sea legs that I once had. When I do venture outside of the harbour, I do wear a harness

Another thought that I have is in regard to the length of the tether. I can't and won't speak of the length of the tether used on larger boats. The beam on my Ty is 6' 3". I feel that the use of a six foot long tether would be dangerous for me. FWIW, my Ty has no stanchions or safety lines. I like to use a four foot long tether on my Ty

I do own a six foot long tether. My main sail is loose footed. Sometimes, when conditions warrant, I pass the six foot tether over and around the boom and clip both ends to my harness. This converts it to a three foot long tether. I have a SS link in line to create a little slack in the tether. With this arrangement, I can slide the tether along the boom from the cockpit forward to the mast.

This method of wrapping the tether around the boom might create some security when leaving a bimini before finally clipping onto a jack line. It's not a pad eye but it is something. And it is high up, not low.

Best regards,
O J