towing walker bay 8

[Dick Barthel]

I've always used a roll up for cruising but I'm planning to try towing a Walker Bay 8 to allow for easier access to the shore. I learned the hard way last fall that after launches stop running that the roll up just doesn't cut it for any distance or any wind. The 25d is just to small to consider storing on deck. I suppose it could be done if necessary in snotty conditions especially with a following sea.

I've learned from other websites that the WB8 tows pretty well however it can easily pass the mother ship when sailing down wind in any kind of sea. A single line to the bow ring apparently works pretty well.

I need some help with the basics: I assume I'd use a bridle with floats and special line that floats to keep from tangling with the prop. So I can envision two lines tied to the stern cleats and a single line to the eye on the bow of the WB. I'm having the flimsy eye that comes with the dink replaced with a more substantial version with a backing plate.

Also, I'm reading its a good idea to put a snubber (sp?) in the mix to soften the tugs.

My questions:

Do you extend the bridle length with another line when you need more distance from the mother ship?

Where does the snubber go? How is it installed? With knots?

How do you adjust the overall length for optimum towing? Do you pull the dink in and add or subtract length?

I realize this is old hat to many of our veterans so I'm really hoping to get the basics before the NE Fleet trip starts a week from tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dick

[Russell]

Rollups, or any inflatibles suck for rowing. Have you considered, for roughtly the same price, buying a small outboard for your inflatible? Walker bays do row better, but they are tippy and if you ask me downright dangerous and have no buisness being out on the water in anything more the very calm conditions. I know 4 or 5 people who have capsized their tenders and every single one of them was a walker bay. Sure you can spend even more money and buy the tube kit for it, but why invest even more in what already isnt a good choice?

[Russell]

Sorry, but to answer your questions if you do opt for a Walker Bay, towing any tender, inflatible, hard, whatever, the goal is to get it beyond the closest wave to the stern, so when it surfs, it wont surf into the big boat. I personally use two 70 foot lines for towing, polypropeline core (so it floats) with a specta outside (so UV does not kill it), thats attached to a pretty typical tow harness made of nylon webbing and a float. I dont nessisarily tow 70' back all time, but having such a length allows for adjustment and reguardless of sea state I know I can keep the dink from surfing into me (beyond 70 feet I shouldnt be towing it, and I myself would argue that even that is far too much). I use two lines rather then one for two reasons: 1) Easy, if one breaks, its redundancy. 2) The real reason, when you need to pull it in, the load a 70 to 100 lb dingy when going 5 knots casues is big, 2 lines lets you winch one in while letting the other go slack then when it becomes too much, swap.

I still think a Walker Bay is a terrible tender choice, but the above allies to any dinghy.

[NateHanson]

It sounds to me like you're over thinking things. With a hard dinghy you just need a long, stout polypropylene line. Run it from the bow ring of the tender to a stern cleat. There's no need to tow it off both sides of the stern. A second line is never a bad idea for redundancy, though I think it partially depends on where you're sailing. If in exposed conditions, you may want to double up, or that thought might be a hint that it's time to get the dinghy up on the foredeck. I could fit a Walker Bay 8 on the foredeck of my Columbia 26 comfortably. Not sure about a CD 25.

As Russell said, you want to tow the dinghy just behind the first or second stern wave, so it's running slightly uphill at all times. If it's in the trough it will slew around, and if it's on the front of one of those waves, it will surf down towards you and do all kinds of evil stuff.

Regarding the Walker Bay, I agree with Russell - they stink. I'm a fan of hard dinghys, because I like the simplicity of rowing. However, the Walker Bay rows horribly, doesn't carry more than 2 adults safely, and is generally a miserable little boat. We replaced ours with an 8' Puffin, which has nearly the same dimensions, but is a completely different boat. It rows beautifully, carries our young family of 4 + dog easily, and sails decently too.

On the other hand, for you, a small outboard for your roll-up dinghy might be a better answer if there isn't room on the foredeck. If you regularly sail in rougher, more exposed areas with your dinghy, you should have some way to carry your dinghy on board. It really takes a lot of strain off the dinghy, and your nerves. And it gets rid of a fair amount of drag that slows down your boat.

[Brian2]

I also think you are way overthinking this. I have a Walker Bay 10, and have had it for years, it takes a beating, rows fine, tows as good as anything else I've seen, is light, and I like it. For a painter I have a single line run from the bow eye to a stern cleat, with one float to keep it from going under when setting anchor or backing up. Though I still snug up the painter shen setting the anchor. I haven't had any trouble with mine sailing past me under sail. It doesn't seem unstable to me. I carry two oars, two orange life vests, a throwable, a bailer, a hand pump, a covered plastic tub with three 1 lb. propane canisters, a scrub brush for the boat, and a scrub brush for dishes in the WB10. I have also used it with a 2.5 hp yamaha 4 stroke.

My neighbor tipped over in his WB10, but it was complete operator error (jumping into it to bail after a heavy rain storm, and the water in the WB10 sloshed one way when he jumped into one side insted of the middle, then sloshed to the other side, and he lost balance and fell into the water).

The WB 8 seemed too small to me, so I bought the 10.

[Steve Laume]

I am not going to dis anyone's dinghy. In my opinion, any hard dinghy is better than a blow up boat. Coming from canoes and kayaks they are all reasonably stable, the longer the better for rowing.

I have a good bit of experience towing my CD-10. Not all good but I have learned a few things. First of all there is no overkill.

If your dinghy ever fills with water while under tow you will be thankful for the extra security. I have had two incidents of this. One was a drain plug that came lose and popped out. The other was extremely heavy rains. Once the dinghy has a fair amount of water in it, you would be amazed at how much strain it puts on the towing tackle.

We also had a painter part in the middle of Buzzards due to chafe. Do not tie directly to a fixed eye. Put another shackle in the system to keep the painter from chafing.

I use the poly line with an extra float near the dinghy. You still need to be careful about backing down but it helps a lot. I run two lines from opposite stern cleats to two different attachment points on the dinghy. This makes for a completely redundant system and helps to keep the dinghy towing directly behind the mother ship. The original towing eye was a single bolt affair with a large washer for a backing plate in an area with a good bit of glass. The second, that I added, is a Spartan eye and ring bolted to the bow with a bronze backing plate right at the water line. I plan to change out the other eye at some point and maybe lower it a bit at that time.

When towing, I let the boat settle and then pay out enough line to allow the dinghy to ride near the top of the second wave. You do this by feel. When you get it right the dinghy should be surfing that wave with very little resistance. The only time I have had problems with the dinghy surfing into or past the mother ship has been in larger following seas thta override the effects of the boat's wake. The separate tow lines tend to help out in this situation. If you are concerned about the dinghy hitting you then it is time to add a bunch more line so it will veer off before it gets to you.

When I come into a situation where I don't want the dinghy too far back as in entering a slip I will usually shorten up a bit and bring both lines to the same side. When I get to where I want it right up close I leave it cleated and just take a loop of line up and toss it over the sheet winch opposite the dock side. This also works out well when at anchor and you want to bring the dinghy up along side to board but in that case I use the mid ship cleat.

I have never used any kind of shock absorber as the line has some give to it. This is especially true when things get rough and you lengthen the painters. I also think that having two lines helps to reduce the shock loading.

So I guess I would rather error on the side of over kill and put a few points in the black box, Steve

[NateHanson]

Steve, are you able to stow the 10 footer on deck when you're offshore? Or do you have an inflatable for offshore trips?

[Jim Davis]

While I seldom tow any more since I have davits here are a few thoughts based on when I did and what I intend when I down size.

I prefer a rigid dink, but for cruising, especially long distances inflatables are better as support vessels. The added stability and capacity become more important. However most inflatables tow about like a sea anchor (slight exaggeration). For an inflatable I will often pull it in till it is at the big boat with the bow lifted a bit. If the weather is going to be snotty I bring the inflatable on deck, also I bring it on deck for anything more than a few miles. I rigid I seldom bring on deck except for open water passages or real snotty conditions. Being fully retired I avoid going anywhere if it is going to be nasty.

Most rigid dinghy's have the tow eye too high and weak. I place one at about the waterline with heavy fiberglass backing and SS backing plates. This lifts the bow a bit for easier towing, better tracking and reduces the chance of capsize.

I use a separate painter for towing that has a carabiner for attaching to the dinghy. The painter has a swimming noodle on it so when I hauls the dinghy up short it can't quite reach the big boat. I have sucked even poly line down into the prop so I bring the dinghy up short for maneuvering, often moving it alongside or to the bow if needed.

To keep the dinghy from surfing I have a small funnel on the painter about four feet from the dinghy. Normally it points toward the big boat, but when the painter goes slack the mouth goes under water and acts as a brake. It doesn't have to be very large and has figure eight knots to keep it in place. As to how far back, the famous second stern wave in nice, but weather, traffic and maneuvering all play a part. Generally I adjust based on drag on the painter and like it almost slack. There is really no hard and fast rule here

[Steve Laume]

Steve, are you able to stow the 10 footer on deck when you're offshore? Or do you have an inflatable for offshore trips?

There is no way a 10' or even 8' dinghy will fit on the deck of a CD-30. I towed it once, offshore to Maine and vowed, never again. It might work for a trip like that if you had a good cover.

I finally broke down and bought an air floored inflatable for long trips. It sleeps on the starboard settee berth while underway. This keeps the weight low and eliminates any chance of it washing overboard.

It is an imperfect world, Steve.

[Brian2]

Actually, I realized I don't tow my dinghy from the bow eye. The WB10 has three holes (one hole in each stern corner and one in the bow) in the gunnel/rub rail(not really a rub rail)/edge for lifting. For the painter I go down thru the hole in the bow to the bow eye. A better angle for me.

Brian

[Stan W.]

There is no way a 10' or even 8' dinghy will fit on the deck of a CD-30.

Pshaw. Here is my homebuilt 8 footer on the foredeck of my CD28.

[Steve Laume]

Okay Stan. There is no way a CD-10 will fit on the bow of a CD-30 when rigged as a cutter with a stay sail boom. I envy the dinghy stowage but don't want to give up my cutter rig, Steve.

[Dick Barthel]

Thanks everyone for your comments. A few more facts are in order (I guess).

I was given the WB 8 for free by a friend who sold his boat. I have a WB10 with a ring but I think it's too big to tow behind a 25D. Also it is to big for the shore racks (free) so it costs $350 a year to keep it in the water. Nothing sticks to the bottom except marine life so that's another reason to go with the 8. It also fills up with water during my frequent extended absences. The 8 fits nicely in the rack and only weighs 70 lbs. It's fine as a home port tender. Both boats row beautifully so I'm not sure about the comments to the contrary. The 8 is of course tippy without a ring, that's a given. I do think I could put it on my foredeck if I it became necesary.

Again the purpose of the WB8 experiment is really for local cruising and not off shore. As for the roll up I do have a motor but I think you are going to get soaked in any kind of chop whether rowing or motoring. Not so rowing the WB8 unless you manage to tip it over of course.

In September the launch stops at places like Block Island and Cutty Hunk so you're essentially boat bound with out some practical way to get ashore. That's what I really have in mind by towing the WB 8. During the summer the roll up is fine especially when launches are readily available.

So I'm going to buy some webbing and give it a shot. If it really works out it's not a terrible cost/stretch to retro fit a ring. It honestly does row to beat hell.

And I don't mind shots taken at the WB as opinions are just that. I've had the WB10 for 8 years and it looks the same as the day I purchased it - ugly but like new. In my opinion WBs are practical, indestructible, row great and they are unaffected by UV rays. And I really don't need to worry about someone stealing it!

I'll be towing the WB8 from Noank to Red Brook Harbor near the Cape so that will be a fair trial. If it doesn't work out maybe I'll sell it along the way!

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

Dick

[Brian2]

I agree. I don't worry about anyone stealing my WB10. I don't have the inflatable ring. Is it removable to make storage easier?

Also, I have bottome painted my WB 10 and it sticks.

[Dick Barthel]

Brian,

I have room so I always have kept the ring partially inflated but I suppose just like a regular inflatable you could just let all the air out and carefully fold it.

That is interesting about the bottom paint. I've read many times that paint doesn't stick to the mold injected plastic but I have never actually tried it myself.

To finish the story on the towing I ended up talking to a 10,000+ miles cruiser and he told me to get some floating line from West Marine, not the hard yellow stuff we all would think of, but a special line designed for towing, three strand, etc. He recommended for my purpose no more than 30 feet needed, tie off to one to a stern cleat and the other end with a bowline to the dink, add a few floats and I'd be all set. That's what I decided on chided by the "overthinking" comments. He thought I'd find it would ride nicely at no more than 15 feet off the stern. Should we face following seas he suggested pulling it close in to mitigate the running start slams into the stern. I'm really not expecting those conditions but will try that or lash to foredeck if necessary.

So we'll see how it goes. And again, thanks to everyone for taking the time to comment - much appreciated.

Dick