Access to Stanchion Nuts

[BGS]

I am attempting to re bed some of my deck hardware. I'm having a hell if a time getting at some of the nuts on the underside. I have socket extension and a jointed socket adapter but still seems nearly impossible to access. Am I just being a pansy not getting creative enough or is there a a better way?

Thanks

Btw I'm on a CD 28

[Russell]

I am attempting to re bed some of my deck hardware. I'm having a hell if a time getting at some of the nuts on the underside. I have socket extension and a jointed socket adapter but still seems nearly impossible to access. Am I just being a pansy not getting creative enough or is there a a better way?

Thanks

Btw I'm on a CD 28

I think the best way, given the odd access (at least on my CD36) would be with the person below using a small wrench (not a socket driver) holding the nut and the person on top with the screw driver doing the real work, basicly opposite of what would be normal in a situation with a hex nut and a slotted screw bolt.

My stanchoins leak and have for years and the sheer pain of doing it (especially as a solo sailor) have led me to mostly accept the leaks (the water goes down behind the ash lining and to the bilge, no real damage other then a bilge pump that runs a lot when sailing to windward).

[Steve Laume]

What Russell says makes perfect sense. Even the let em leak part. I might also say that adding some of your blood to the task is inevitable and will certainly help, along with some sweat and possibly a few choice words. This is one place where vise grips might actually be preferred to a proper wrench. If you can; get at the nuts to break them lose with a wrench then clamp the vise grips on and head up to deal with the screws. Having a willing teenager might also be a great help but that is kind of an oxymoron, Steve.

[bottomscraper]

Having removed every stanchion on Mahalo you absolutely need two people. Similar to what Russell said the major work is done from above but rather than a regular screwdriver get a compact cordless impact driver. I have a 12V Milwaukee 2450-22 that I like but any will do. Be prepared to replace many of the fasteners. On the under side some will work better with a box or open end wrench while others with a deep socket. I hate to admit but if I remember correctly we ended up even using vise grips on a few really ugly ones . When you get done you will be cussing like a real sailor! We don't have any more leaks. The good news is putting them back is easier.

[Neil Gordon]

It's my tool of choice whenever there's hull or bulkhead or whatever to keep them from rotating 360... note that that's just about everywhere on the boat. They free up one hand such that I only need three hands to complete the otherwise impossible task of the day.

[Russell]

It's my tool of choice whenever there's hull or bulkhead or whatever to keep them from rotating 360... note that that's just about everywhere on the boat. They free up one hand such that I only need three hands to complete the otherwise impossible task of the day.

Vicegrips are indeed one of the most useful tools on the boat, I keep 4 different ones of different sizes and have very often used them exactly has you described.

[hilbert]

My stanchoins leak and have for years and the sheer pain of doing it (especially as a solo sailor) have led me to mostly accept the leaks (the water goes down behind the ash lining and to the bilge, no real damage other then a bilge pump that runs a lot when sailing to windward).

If they leaked only at the solid fiberglass deck edge, then the problem would be one of inconvenience and comfort. However, that may not be the case.
Taken from fenixrises at http://www.sbastro.com/FeNIX/Projects/Deck.htm:

This is where the aftermost port stantion base was through bolted. The inboard two bolts pass through the balsa core. Unfortunately Capy Dory did not properly seal the through deck penetrations in the balsa cored areas. Over the years this has caused much grief for the owners.

[John M]

My experience is when removing, vice grips , open end wrench anything works. However when replacing you should look up the posts on butyl Rubber SP? , I followed this procedure and no more leaks, I was very carful not to turn the screws when replacing since I felt this would jeopardize the seal around the screw. This was difficult and required a person on deck holding the screw, while I tightened the nuts, in many cases with a small open end wrench. You need a great deal of patients, some of the screws seem almost impossible to access.
This is my third time re-beading trying to stop the leaks and using the butyl rubber seems to be the answer to the leaking problem. The article directs you use a countersink bit to place a slight chamfer on the screw holes, allowing an area for butyl rubber that won’t be squeezed out. My boat has not leaked a drop since this approach.

[hilbert]

Has anyone considered deep-sixing stanchions altogether?
Are they a last chance or just false security?
The owners of this Ranger prefer to rely on jack-lines.

[Maine_Buzzard]

All last year I was without lifelines. I've made some small lines from Dyneema and now have some shorter stanchions for just behind the pulpit, really for the area forward of the cabin.

I'll post a picture soon, and plan on taking the bases out this year, to be replaced with teak fillers. The blocks at the mast get stainless bails for running the preventer.

All of this is for daysailing. If I was offshore, proper lifelines would be present.

[BGS]

Thanks for all the replies, glad I asked. Vice grips are a great help and they didn't even cross my mind. Still a PITA but much less of one. Patience is definitely required.

I have no experience with the stuff but butyl tape does seem to be the way to go from my research. I attached the link below to the article I have been using for posterity.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware

[becca]

What Russell says makes perfect sense. Even the let em leak part. I might also say that adding some of your blood to the task is inevitable and will certainly help, along with some sweat and possibly a few choice words. This is one place where vise grips might actually be preferred to a proper wrench. If you can; get at the nuts to break them lose with a wrench then clamp the vise grips on and head up to deal with the screws. Having a willing teenager might also be a great help but that is kind of an oxymoron, Steve.

Glad to see I'm not the first one facing this issue. I'm happy to invest blood, sweat and a few choice words to the task, but seriously I have climbed fully inside the cockpit lockers and haven't even been able to locate the stanchion nuts for the furthest aft stanchions on my 25'. And I'm convinced there's no access from the cabin. How do you reach these?? Maybe its different on a 25' - the stanchions in question are located right in between the end of the cockpit and beginning of the cabin.

As for the let em leak approach, I was happily doing that until recently when my habit of going swimming and monkeying back into the boat without a ladder resulted in one REALLY wiggly stanchion...

[Shinok]

I guess we're fortunate to not have this problem. All of ours don't leak, but I have had some of the toerail tracks which extend from the stern to just forward of the lowers leak and getting to those nuts was an absolute nightmare. I ended up squeezing a dremel with a worn out cutting wheel up there and cutting the stubborn ones out. I determined the amount of time it took for me to go through that effort wasn't worth it.

After doing that, I have to be honest, I think next time I'll just tape the bolts down below so they don't fall, then cut the heads off and drive them through the deck. It'll destroy the fitting, but I'd rather spend time on the 100 other things I need to do and just install new stanchion bases or tracks. I've debated on removing our stanchion bases and filling the holes, since several of them are slightly bent and in mediocre shape anyway. I guess I've become jaded, I've spent a lot of time trying to preserve some of our deck fittings when the easier and, often, cheaper way would just be to destroy the fitting to remove it and replace it with new.

All of this is for daysailing. If I was offshore, proper lifelines would be present.

I'm about to show how naive I am by asking this, but I've contemplated removing our stanchions all together. It seems like all they ever do is get sheets stuck and I can't ever think of a condition where if I'm going overboard, they would stop me, they just don't seem high enough to be useful.

So my question is, if you have jacklines and a tether short enough to keep you in the boat, what's the point of lifelines?

[becca]

So it sounds like you were eventually able to get the old toe rail fasteners out, but then you still had to access the space to put new ones on, right?

Has anyone had any luck tightening up wiggly, leaky stanchions WITHOUT fully removing and rebedding? My other thought was to shove maybe a piece of rubber or something in the gap between stanchion base and deck, then caulk all around...thoughts?

[Shinok]

So it sounds like you were eventually able to get the old toe rail fasteners out, but then you still had to access the space to put new ones on, right?

Yea, that wasn't a problem. There were a few that were a little trickier than others, but installing the new fasteners took very little time. I found access along the cabin sides fairly "easy", I'd have to stick my head in some awkward positions, but I could generally see what I was doing and get my tools where they needed to be. I also have a $25 borescope that I can use to see in areas I can't easily stick my egg head.

I should also point out that I've cut some pieces of my headliner out. It's not cosmetically appealing, but it makes access to inspect backing plates, replacing nuts, etc, a lot easier. Given the age of the boat, I'm more concerned about keeping her structurally sound than looking pristine. I do my best to keep it looking reasonable though