One of the dangers of being "thethered" to your sailboat

[Sea Hunt Video]

I think that getting back aboard would be even easier if the boat was sailing than if you are at anchor or a dock. If you are tethered and it still allows you to go over the side it will most likely be on the lee side. Steve.

Steve: As should be pretty obvious I am pretty dumb when it comes to most things related to sailboats. Can you explain the above.

I would think that if I was going forward to do something at the mast or the jib, etc., that I would want to move forward on the high (windward) side of the sailboat. If I lost my footing, or slipped, or whatever, I would think I would slide off the boat from the high side from where I was standing or squatting.

I know you have a ton and a half of experience so I know my thinking is wrong. Help As always, please be gentle. I have a very delicate and sensitive skin and bruise easily.

[Neil Gordon]

If I lost my footing, or slipped, or whatever, I would think I would slide off the boat from the high side from where I was standing or squatting.

You can go off either side. If you slip, you're likely to slide downhill. If you lose your balance though, or are tossed about by a rogue wave, you can fall either way. It's hardly worth debating the odds of going off the high side vs. sliding to the low side but whatever the outcome of that discussion, going forward on the leeward side remains a generally bad idea.

[rorik]

The argument for short, stretchy tethers:


http://dmmclimbing.com/knowledge/how-to ... ma-slings/

[Steve Laume]

I always go forward on the high side and am pretty conscious of keeping low and watching out for what is coming. If you fall towards the low side, unless you are right at the bow, the tether and jack line will keep you on the boat. When working at the mast, I sometimes have to go around to the lee side but by then I am clipped to the mast with a snug line. What makes me think it is far more likely to fall over or towards the lee rail is that the heel of the boat along with wind and waves are all trying to send you in that direction. Plus the windward life lines are effectively higher due to the angle of heel. The most dangerous place on Raven seems to be getting from the cockpit to the handholds on the cabin top. If I ever get around to building a hard dodger it will have some serious hand holds in that location.

The video of the dynamic tests on slings was very interesting but I am not so sure it transfers over to sailing all that well. Rock climbing rope is always supposed to have some stretch and I think what they were trying to demonstrate is that you should not use high tech slings without a rope unless they are snug when you start. I don't know anyone who would stand on a ledge and belay someone else with a bunch of slack in the anchor point but it was a good demonstration of the increased loads this low stretch material could generate.

On a boat I suppose you could see forces similar to what you would have in a free fall but it would not usually be the case. As far as generating the kind of shock loading he was showing with that set up, it just wouldn't happen. There is some give in your harness, body and the nylon tether. The biggest shock absorber would be in the jack line material and the fact that the loading would be off to the side. I think it would still hurt bad if you took a really nasty fall but at least it wouldn't cut you in half.

I have absolutely no experience with falling on or off of the boat and would like to keep it that way. I have often thought about jumping over the side while tethered with a competent crew aboard but the situation has never been right and I am afraid it might hurt.

This whole discussion seems a bit silly to me. First of all I am very careful about moving around on the boat but not to the point of it crippling my movement. You don't want your tether, life lines or any other safety features to have to save you. Much like you would not want to get in a car accident. First you drive a well maintained and safe car in a defensive manner but you would certainly want your air bags to work and it would be foolish not to use your seat belt, Steve.

[rorik]

......The video of the dynamic tests on slings was very interesting but I am not so sure it transfers over to sailing all that well.....
On a boat I suppose you could see forces similar to what you would have in a free fall but it would not usually be the case. As far as generating the kind of shock loading he was showing with that set up, it just wouldn't happen. There is some give in your harness, body and the nylon tether. The biggest shock absorber would be in the jack line material and the fact that the loading would be off to the side. I think it would still hurt bad if you took a really nasty fall but at least it wouldn't cut you in half.....

It doesn't matter if you fall sideways, straight down, onto the deck, or directly into the water.
When your body moves through space, you move at a given velocity, or speed. That velocity/speed will differ based on your body weight plus added weight of clothing and gear. It will also vary based on the direction in which you move (vertically, sideways, etc).

The loads shown in the video were based on a load of 176 pounds falling distances of 2 feet, 3 feet and 6 feet.
According to the maker of the video, a climbing equipment manufacturer in Wales for the last 30 years, a force of 10kN or 2248 pounds, is enough force to cause internal injuries.

According to their tests, a static free fall onto a 2 foot long sling can generate 16.7kN or 3754 pounds.
If you have a 6 foot long tether and you weigh 176 pounds soaking wet in your foulies, and you free fall only the last 2 feet into water after going over the lifelines, how much force could possibly be generated that your tether, harness, and, more importantly, your body, are going to have to try to absorb? Will it be the entire 2248 pounds?
I'm considered "thin" at 180 pounds, plus clothes/gear. I'm guessing that most men are closer to the 200 pound mark, plus clothes and gear. How much higher is that force at the end of a 2 foot free fall with the extra 25, or more, pounds?
Even if the "sailing" version is only half the force shown in the "climbing" test, do you really want self inflicted internal injuries as you try to climb back on board?

If there's a way to mitigate debilitating forces in a bad situation, it's probably a good thing not to ignore.

I'm not trying to pick on you Steve, I just like flogging dead horses. They don't make as much noise.

[Steve Laume]

[quote
If there's a way to mitigate debilitating forces in a bad situation, it's probably a good thing not to ignore.

I'm not trying to pick on you Steve, I just like flogging dead horses. They don't make as much noise.[/quote]


Okay the dead horse shall catch hell.

The test they did was conducted on extremely rigid attachment points and that is what really kicked up the forces. Those spectra rock climbing runners used to be made of tubular nylon which has much more stretch and is very similar to a sailing tether. I think his point was that you do not want to fall on a runner that will not absorb the force of the fall. The reason they make them of that material for rock climbing is to keep bulk and weight down when you are hauling a whole lot of em up a climb. They are generally used as a link from an anchor point to your rope and the rope provides the shock absorption. The nylon cut the forces in half but it was still measured against an attachment point with no give whatsoever. I have fallen on a climbing rope a good number of times and while it is not a pleasant experience it is certainly not life threatening if things hold. There is a lot of stretch in nylon.

30' of jack line and another 3 to 6 foot of tether would have the same effect as the climbing rope. With a climbing fall the forces are pretty much all in line with the rope so the stretch is what absorbs the force and then transfers some of it to your body. The jack lines would not only stretch but there would also be deflection to help take away even more of the impact.

Think of all that nice stretchy nylon as a trampoline and the spectra line as a concrete floor. If you were to make it all the way to the water, then it would absorb most of the impact.

Liz and I talked about this a bit at dinner and came up with all sorts of analogies.

But seriously, would you rather slam into a rigid life line and hope it held or that you didn't go over the thing or get caught up on a nice stretchy tether before you even got that far? I have four pad eyes in my cockpit. Two of them are right outside the companion way and I can hook into the high one before I leave the cabin and access the helm. There are two more at the wheel. When I go forward, I am clipped to a jack line on a 6' tether. Once I get to the mast I can clip onto it with the 3' tether and even take a wrap around it so I can lean into it while I work. At the bow I can stay clipped to the jack line but also use the 3' tether clipped to a life line.

I don't always take this much precaution but if it is nasty or at night I have promised to do this and I never want to become a missing sailor, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

If, and I am not sure of this, I were to decide to install a jack line, a few questions.

What material

What shape Flat or round. I would think flat would be safer.

On a Cape Dory 25D, one jack line running from bow to stern or two jack lines running bow to stern port and starboard

Thanks.

[rorik]

If that's your version of hell, Steve....eternity's gonna be easy.

There were several fairly decent threads and articles on Sailing Anarchy, morganscloud, Practical Sailor, L-36, etc. that had a fair bit of information from people who race or who have cruised for a long time. The video I posted came from one of those threads.

ASPLTD sells mostly to racers. They make custom jack lines that are a 1/4" Amsteel core inside 1" tubular webbing. Eye splice on the ends, shackle on one end, Dyneema lashing on the other. They suggest terminating the jack line at least a tether length prior to the ends of the boat. That jack line makes the attachment point to the boat fairly solid. That means the jack line won't stretch far enough to allow you to go over the side if you're using a long tether. It also means that more force is transferred to the tether - and to you.

If you look at the new OSHA harnesses for anyone working above the ground, they are leaning to the more stretchy tethers.
The tethers that WIchard, Spinlock, etc are selling look a whole lot like the tethers in the video. Some of them have started to use screamers to decrease the shock loading.
The tethers, when they are shorter and more stretchy, do a better job of keeping you A) inside the lifelines and B) if you do fall, reducing the impact force as much as possible by not allowing your body to accelerate or travel as far or as fast as it would if you had a longer tether.

If your current setup has the potential to deliver only 500 pounds of force to your body, (1/4 of what was in the video) and you have an opportunity to reduce that potential even further, why would you not do it?

I have a single pad eye in the forward face of the cockpit that allows me to get to everything in the cockpit. When I need to go forward, there are two pad eyes, one on each side of the companionway that are the start of the jack line. The jack line runs forward on each side of the coach roof, through another padeye near the mast (the old pad eyes for the long gone jib boom) and then down to the fore deck cleats.
The two tethers on my harness are just long enough for me to reach everything inside the life lines.

I don't really like being clipped in most of the time, but then, I don't like being cold, wet and dead either.
Good horsey.....

[Steve Laume]

I don't really like being clipped in most of the time, but then, I don't like being cold, wet and dead either.
Good horsey.....

You left out unaccounted for as well as hungry and thirsty while on your way there.

I don't enjoy the harness either and probably wouldn't be as good about wearing it if I hadn't promised those that may be left behind that I would wear it when it seemed prudent. I don't bother in protected waters on mild days but am pretty religious about it at night and offshore.

The closest I ever came to going over the side was in mild and steady winds on Vineyard Sound. I was standing on top of the bow pulpit, holding onto the fore stay and enjoying a glorious day. A mega yacht had passed by a half mile or more away in towards shore. The wake seemed of no concern until it got right to Raven and we happened to be over a shoal with a good tide running. It very suddenly peaked and pitched the bow so hard that I was launched off of my pulpit perch. I did manage to hang onto the fore stay and land back on the pulpit but it was the closest I ever came to being catapulted off the boat. This was with the wind vane engaged and no tether. I violated the first rule of survival : don't be an idiot, but got away with a good scare and a lesson learned.

Robert, my jack line rig consists of a bronze pad eye on each quarter deck a bit forward of the stern cleats. I clip the jack lines to those and run them forward along the base of the cabin top to a large stainless pad eye just aft of the bow cleats. The forward attachment point just allows me to reach the bow. All of these pad eyes have large aluminum backing plates. The jack lies are 1" webbing with a stainless clip sewn on one end and I tie them to the forward pad eye. I always lay them out carefully with no twists and pull them snug before tying them off.

You could use your cleats but there always seems to be too much other stuff that gets in the way. I didn't really want to remove them before anchoring and it doesn't seem like a good idea to have your anchor line chafing on the jack lines. When not using the jack lines they are coiled and hung to dry inside the boat. This keeps sun damage to a minimum.

For all the freedom we enjoy while sailing this is one area where I am willing to be somewhat restrained, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

I'm thinking not enough attention is paid to the length of the tethers. With my jacklines running alongside the cabin top (from the forward cleats to the winch stands), I don't need much, especially if I'm staying low. I'll rig the jacklines and test things out in the slip. Stay tuned.

[bamabratsche]

I have to say, I have climbed back into the Typhoon unassisted a couple of times, and it seems pretty straightforward. However, it is hard to think of a boat with lower freeboard than the Typhoon, and I have heard many people talk about this being a concern, so maybe it's more of a concern with larger boats? I am also in my early 30s, but am not sure I'd still want to try that in 20 years or so.

I mostly single-hand, but it's usually in fairly busy waters with no self steering, so my thought has always been that she will just round up if I fell off and then I would swim over and climb back on. What really concerns me, though, is the possibility of hitting my head on the way down and getting knocked out, especially early or late in the season when the water is still cold enough for hypothermia to be a problem. I remember this happened to a guy on Mobile Bay when I was growing up--very experienced sailor, not a whole lot of wind, warm day, went out for a solo afternoon sail and they found the body drifting miles away from the boat a couple of days later. I could easily imagine, even if you were tethered, that if you hit your head on the side on your way over and were knocked out and dragged through the water behind the boat, it wouldn't take long to drown. I have started wearing a self-inflating PDF when I'm by myself, but that wouldn't necessarily keep you face-up if you were being dragged.

The scariest thing that has happened to me on any boat was one night last fall during a cold snap, I was at the marina and did not realize that it had gotten cold enough for the dew on the deck to start to freeze. I stepped on from the pier and my foot slipped halfway across the deck before it finally got traction, and I could easily have slipped all the way, smashed the back of my head on the pier, and gone into the water. It was around 9pm and there was nobody else around at all. Very sobering. Drowning in 4 feet of water an arms length from dry land would not be a good way to go.

[rorik]

It doesn't have to be your head being hit that makes it hard/impossible to climb back aboard. Smack your weak side elbow or wrist hard enough as you go over the side that you can't use your arm properly. Then try to climb back aboard using one arm.

[KDreese]

This issue was always a good mental debate for me with weighing the pros and cons when sailing solo (for me thats 99% of the time). Where I ended up was that it was better to be tethered than not tethered. My setup:
- Jack lines running fore and aft
- Use of an auto inflate life vest with a harness - if hit head and fall over board at least there is a chance of floating the right way
- Carry a sharp safety knife attached to belt. If I fell overboard and couldn't get back on board then I could at least cut myself loose if needed. I sail close to land so again there is a chance of reaching shore.

That being said the best policy IMO is to have one hand for the boat. Dont fall off... period. But stuff happens and sometimes fast (even on a slow boat) so I wanted a back up plan that provided a good chance. IMO without a tether... sailing alone if you get hit by something or fall over board the chances are a lot smaller than with a tether. As always with boat related topics most things are a compromise.

[Sea Hunt Video]

KD:

Your "set up" is kind of what I was thinking - at least now that I am thinking about installing jacklines. My auto inflate PFD with built in harness (Mustang), a sharp knife, thether and jackline.

I believe the Pardys said it best. Paraphrased, "Stay ON the boat".

[Bill Goldsmith]

Clipping in requires common sense and situational awareness. If you are part of a larger crew, using a long tether on a side-deck is less of an issue, because the crew can pull you back in. It prevents the crew from having to search for you in open water. It still is not a great option as the crew member can be injured on the way overboard.

Singlehanding, you simply do not want to go over the side. Period. This is an example, It is virtually impossible to pull yourself back aboard at speed while tethered to the boat. If the tether is set up properly, you should be able to disconnect it at the harness. However, if the boat is on autopilot or self-steering, you will just watch the boat sail away from you. There is a lot written about this subject, and each situation deserves careful thought.