CD 30 = CABIN DOORS NOT CLOSING PROPERLY

[ED BURKE]

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

[Jim Heldberg]

This is frightening. Those ARE stuctural bulkheads.
Door shifting happens on cheap boats. However, doors that won't close, and (even worse) shifting bulkheads on a Cape Dory could only be caused by hull distortion, which is a strong indication of major hull damage. Did it fall over in a boatyard? Collide with a tanker? Wash up on a beach in heavy surf conditions? Check for twisted motor mounts, binding rudder post, and other major items throughout the boat. A severely poorly tuned rig could contribute to the problem, but I doubt it would cause it. Get a thorough marine survey before you do anything with this boat.
If you own this boat, you know what caused it, and can work to remedy it, with good advice from a marine surveyor and a good boat yard.
If you're looking to purchase this boat, DON'T! Instead, warn the rest of this board as to its identity.

Jim Heldberg
Cape Dory 30 Ketch "Leoma"
San Francisco Bay

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

jimhpac@aol.com

[ED BURKE]

This is frightening. Those ARE stuctural bulkheads.
Door shifting happens on cheap boats. However, doors that won't close, and (even worse) shifting bulkheads on a Cape Dory could only be caused by hull distortion, which is a strong indication of major hull damage. Did it fall over in a boatyard? Collide with a tanker? Wash up on a beach in heavy surf conditions? Check for twisted motor mounts, binding rudder post, and other major items throughout the boat. A severely poorly tuned rig could contribute to the problem, but I doubt it would cause it. Get a thorough marine survey before you do anything with this boat.
If you own this boat, you know what caused it, and can work to remedy it, with good advice from a marine surveyor and a good boat yard.
If you're looking to purchase this boat, DON'T! Instead, warn the rest of this board as to its identity.

Jim Heldberg
Cape Dory 30 Ketch "Leoma"
San Francisco Bay

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

JIM HELDBERG - THANKS YOUR REPLY, BUT DISAGREE, I HAVE OWNED THE BOAT FOR OVER 15 YEARS, AND NONE OF YOUR SCENAIROS HAVE HAPPENED. ITS SEEMS STRANGE FOR YOU TO SAY THAT THESE ARE STRUCTUAL BULKHEADS, WHEN THEY ARE NOT EVEN "TABBED" TO THE HULL OR CABIN-SOLE, BUT MERELY CAULKED TO THE ADJOINING WOODWORK,COACH-TOP AND RESTING ON THE MOULDED FIBERGLASS OF THE SOLE.

[Brian]

I think the bulkheads to which you are referring are directly under the mast step. In fact, they form support for a steel beam (that is glassed in between cabin and deck) that the mast sits on. The beam runs across the two bulkheads. Also if you inspect the bulkheads I think that you will find that they are fitted into a recess along the interior and the caulk is cosmetic/sealant. However I wouldn't be to alarmist about it. Your mast step may need some reinforcment such as a compression post or another beam glassed in. Have it checked by a pro.

[Chris Cram]

How poorly do these doors fit? What I mean is -- could the wood have warped somehow? (I doubt it). They are structural. It is a big rig (read heavy) it's load is spread thru that "H" shaped platform on the deck to the spots where the bulkheads are. One reason is so the mast would not have to go clear through to the keel. On the 25D there is a compression tube to relieve the stress placed by the mast. Don't assume anything here get a surveyor to take a look. Are other things mishapen. Did you say the warp was fore and aft? Did someone try to bend the mast aft? Water intrusion will do strange things has there been a persistent leak gone ingnored?
Good Luck



cccobx@prodigy.net

[Mike Thompson]

The amount of shift to jam a door is quite small
and I would not feel it is necessarilly serious.
Look at how much overlap there is between door and
door jamb. Even 1/16 inch or less can stop a door closing.

My guess is that after some years of sailing, the position
of the bulwarks reaches a 'natural' position which may
be different than what it was when the boat was constructed
in the 'unnatural' state of being in a ship yard.

Mike
CD28 HAVEN
-------------------------------------------------------------

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

miket@ma.ultranet.com

[Al Levesque]

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE??

Our CD33 has a similar problem. I assume that the CD30 has the same folding door. I find that if I push hard, I can get the door to pop in and I assume that if I shave or sand the edge a small amount that it would fit better.

In terms of concern, I believe it was Thompson that suggested that this can be quite natural. I have seen it on other boats and I believe that hulls change shape considerably depending on how they are supported and on how they are rigged. I know of one heavily built boat(older than CDs)that went from a very loose door to impossible to close, every year for almost 30 years with no sign of any other problem.

Al



albertlevesque@cove.com

[Mike Greenberg]

When tuning, most people tend to overtighten their rigs. Stays and shrouds should not be bar tight. If this is the case with your boat, loosen up a bit and see if that helps.



mikegre@idt.net

[Olli Wendelin]

I replaced the forward bulkhead a few years ago on my CD30 due to a fire. I did this one side at a time with the mast still rigged in place.

The force of the mast is transfered to a steel member under the mast step which divides the load between the bulkheads fore and aft of the head. Each teak door frame acts as a compression post, transfering the load to the hull & keel. The plywood in the bulkhead keeps the door frame from flexing out of column.

To remove the door frame I placed a hydraulic jack and column in the center of the doorway and took the load off of the doorway. I was then able to unscrew and remove the frame. The plywood was bedded (epoxy?) into the ceiling liner and had to be chipped out. On the sides and bottom it was only screwed in.

As I recall a 1/4" tenon from the door frame sat in notches in the deck and ceiling liner. This would prevent movement.

Is your door one piece or two piece? Does it jam at the top, bottom, or middle? Is there any evidence of movement of the door frame? Accurately measure and record the door frame width at 1 ft intervals. Is it square with a constant opening width? You can duplicate these measurements later (next month, next year) and see if there is any change.

I would plane the door to allow 1/16 to 1/8 inch clearance.
I would make no changes to the bulkheads or door frame unless I knew for sure that they are shifting.

If your boat was placed on jacks it could distort slightly. It could even vary on where the jacks are placed. Once in the water it will shift again.

Changes in humidity cause wood the shrink and swell. Doors and drawers with close tolerances do jam. The fix is to increase the clearances.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC




wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[Larry DeMers]

Well, I wasn't going to rain on your parade etc., but truly, this IS scary. In 11 years of owning and sailing hard, a CD30 called DeLaMer (now with almost 15,000 miles attributed to us since purchase), our doors have never, ever changed positions..and we have spent 12-14 hrs beating into 15fters with 35kt gusts..55 kts one time a while back. If that bulkhead was going to move, it would have. But it did not. The door clearances are the exact same as before.

You have a problem with the hull having been made into a rhomboid for a bit, making the bulkheads loosen up (not sure if there is tabbing on these bulkheads or not). More than likely, the boat has been hurt somehow. As Jim says..run away if this is a purchase..otherwise, if you know what happened..let us know too. It is sad to see a boat showing signs of distress like this.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

This is frightening. Those ARE stuctural bulkheads.
Door shifting happens on cheap boats. However, doors that won't close, and (even worse) shifting bulkheads on a Cape Dory could only be caused by hull distortion, which is a strong indication of major hull damage. Did it fall over in a boatyard? Collide with a tanker? Wash up on a beach in heavy surf conditions? Check for twisted motor mounts, binding rudder post, and other major items throughout the boat. A severely poorly tuned rig could contribute to the problem, but I doubt it would cause it. Get a thorough marine survey before you do anything with this boat.
If you own this boat, you know what caused it, and can work to remedy it, with good advice from a marine surveyor and a good boat yard.
If you're looking to purchase this boat, DON'T! Instead, warn the rest of this board as to its identity.

Jim Heldberg
Cape Dory 30 Ketch "Leoma"
San Francisco Bay

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

Ed,

They are structural bulkheads..whether it's clear to you or not. Frequently, in a boat built with a liner as the CD's are, they mold in a tough section that holds the bulkhead in place horizontally, and this section is then backed up with a reinforecemnt of some kind on the opposite side of the liner, between the liner and the boat itself. The bulkhead acts as a compression post for the downward forces of the mast.

For myself, I would prefer a boat without a liner, and a tabbed in bulkhead. But so be it if this is how they built the CD's. There is nothing wrong with it, and it gets around the problem of cutting through the liner to allow the bulkhead to bear on the boats framing.

Since the boat has not had trauma applied to it which will cause problems of this sort, then perhaps it is a case of the molded in support being compromised in some way. I can think of a way that you could get the panels back to their proper position..with a hydraulic jack, laying horizontally, between the door jambs. But to keep the bulkhead in position after moving it is the challenge for you.Something has changed quite alarmingly. Can you tell which panel moved? I would be surprised if it was both halves of the two bulkheads. You really need to know where it was supposed to be before you can put it back in that spot. You also need to do this with the rig unloaded (removed) and the boat frame relaxed.

Lastly, it would be helpful if you could turn off the CAPS. Caps are interpretted as SHOUTING, and are hard to read.

Good Luck,

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

This is frightening. Those ARE stuctural bulkheads.
Door shifting happens on cheap boats. However, doors that won't close, and (even worse) shifting bulkheads on a Cape Dory could only be caused by hull distortion, which is a strong indication of major hull damage. Did it fall over in a boatyard? Collide with a tanker? Wash up on a beach in heavy surf conditions? Check for twisted motor mounts, binding rudder post, and other major items throughout the boat. A severely poorly tuned rig could contribute to the problem, but I doubt it would cause it. Get a thorough marine survey before you do anything with this boat.
If you own this boat, you know what caused it, and can work to remedy it, with good advice from a marine surveyor and a good boat yard.
If you're looking to purchase this boat, DON'T! Instead, warn the rest of this board as to its identity.

Jim Heldberg
Cape Dory 30 Ketch "Leoma"
San Francisco Bay

HAS ANYONE ANY ADVICE ON HOW TO RE-ADUST THE WOODEN BULK-HEADS WHEN
THE CABIN DOORS BETEEN THE MAIN SALON AND HEAD,AND ALSO BETWEEN THE
HEAD AND FORWARD CABIN HAVE SHIFTED IN-BOARD SO THE DOORS NO LONGER
PROPERLY FIT/CLOSE?? FROM THE LOOKS OF IT, THESE ARE NOT STRUCTUAL
BULK-HEADS, BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE??

JIM HELDBERG - THANKS YOUR REPLY, BUT DISAGREE, I HAVE OWNED THE BOAT FOR OVER 15 YEARS, AND NONE OF YOUR SCENAIROS HAVE HAPPENED. ITS SEEMS STRANGE FOR YOU TO SAY THAT THESE ARE STRUCTUAL BULKHEADS, WHEN THEY ARE NOT EVEN "TABBED" TO THE HULL OR CABIN-SOLE, BUT MERELY CAULKED TO THE ADJOINING WOODWORK,COACH-TOP AND RESTING ON THE MOULDED FIBERGLASS OF THE SOLE.

demers@sgi.com