Cutter vs. Sloop

[MJMarroni]

We are former SS-23 and CD-25 owners and are looking for some advice on a new boat. We sail out of Eastern Point Yacht Club in Gloucester, Massachusetts with our two daughters. I was hoping we could get some avice from you on the following question: Does anyone have any issues sailing the cutter rig found on many of the CD-30's and CD-31's? My only experience sailing a cutter rig was on an Island Packet 386. WEe had a very difficult time, especially in lighter winds, in getting the jib through the slot when tacking. It would often get hung-up or we would have to go forward and walk it through. Any thoughts and/or guidance on cutter vs. sloop rigs would be most appreciated.

Thank you so much. We are new to this site but we are looking forward to becoming active members.

Mark

[JWSutcliffe]

I had a CD30 and now a CD31, both cutter rigged. We had continual problems tacking the 30, as far as getting the headsail through the slot, but only because the only headsail we had was a 150%. On the 31 we rarely use the 130%, and stick with the smaller yankee. In addition to having a shorter foot, the yankee is cut substantially higher than a genoa. This not only results in it slipping through the slot effortlessly, but also provides a huge improvement in terms of downwind visibility when tacking. On the rare occasions when we need better light air performance (which isn't a Cape Dory strong point anyway) we temporarily loosen the inner forestay turnbuckle, unpin it and lash it back, out of the way. If you want to make this task even easier, there are lever-type quick releases available for the inner forestay.

Given the wide range of sail area choices afforded by the cutter rig and ease of tacking, we are very pleased with the cutter rig.

[Mike Davis]

If I'm using a larger genoa, sometimes I furl it in quite a bit, then tack, then unfurl. This way I can use all three sails or just the large genoa. Otherwise I have to pass the sail through the slot manually.

[johnny of STORK]

Where the cutter *really* shines is in heavier air, when you sail with staysail and reefed main. You can take quite a blow, or singlehand in much greater comfort, with this configuration.

Johnny

[Steve Laume]

Raven has the cutter rig with a detachable inner stay. My working jib is a high cut yankee which goes through the slot with retaliative ease as long as the staysail is flying. A few things that help a great deal are to have the staysail to keep the jib from blowing in behind the inner stay. Hold the working sheet until the jib back winds a bit and use a cow hitch instead of other knots to secure the jib sheets.

I have a genny that has only been flown a few times. One year I decided to try it out in the light summer winds of LIS. Although the winds may be light in the summer, boat traffic is not and the reduced visibility freaked me out a bit. I detached the inner stay so tacking was not a problem. The big sail came down after the first time the winds picked up as I felt a bit crippled in my ability to reduce sail. The other time I used the genny was on an offshore trip. In that situation I left the staysail in place as I did not foresee the need to tack and if I did I could have rolled up and deployed on the other side or just handed it through. Visability was not an issue in that case. It did require pulling the whole thing down and stowing it on deck once the wind picked back up.

With the cutter and a yankee jib you have a very versatile sail plan when the wind increases. Sailing with just the self tacking staysail makes short tacking in crowded areas a joy. I feel the weakness of the cutter rig is in down wind sailing. You just can't make all of the sails work. This is when I use a reacher or spinnaker.

Our boats are well designed for heavy wind conditions and the cutter rig is a major part of that plan, Steve.

[Klem]

Mark,

Welcome to the board. We keep our 30 ketch in Essex Bay and quite often sail over to Gloucester harbor so we may well see you out there. We probably end up anchored off of Niles at least 10 times a summer. Come by and say hi if you ever see us out there.

In my opinion, the cutter rig is an excellent choice for the 30ish foot Cape Dorys depending on how you want to use the boat. With this rig, you can fly a yankee on your forestay which will tack through the slot well and not sacrifice much light air performance thanks to the staysail. In heavier airs, you can fly the staysail and a reefed main. With only a roller furling jib on a sloop, you end up not being able to effectively go to windward when it is really blowing. Off the wind, you can fly two headsails only and save a lot of chafe if you want. If you plan to daysail mainly and avoid strong winds, then a sloop rig would be a better choice as it is simpler and performs better in lighter airs. The great thing about these boats is that you can rig them as a cutter or sloop and the rig is up to either configuration without modifications. If performance is your goal but you may encounter heavier air, then making the inner forestay removable can allow you to carry a big genoa and also sail effectively when it gets really windy out.

On my ketch, I have toyed with the idea of an inner forestay many times. We have sailed the boat in 35 knots steady a few times with much higher gusts and I feel that the boat would do a lot better with a staysail rather than a heavily reefed genoa.

If you buy one of these boats, I would recommend giving it a try the way it comes rigged and see how you like it before making any modifications.

[MJMarroni]

Thank you all for the great advice. Looking forward to a great season.

[John Martin]

We went from a 135% Genoa back to the original stay-sail and Yankee jib and saw a noticeable improvement in performance. We had a new 135 Genoa cut for the boat. Over many months, with many very experienced racing friends on board as crew, we never could make the boat perform the way I thought it should. 'Carina' always seemed sluggish. One day I had an epiphany, Carl Alberg designed the boat as a cutter rig, to be sailed with a stay-sail and Yankee. I immediately stripped the Genoa and rigged the Yankee. From that day, the boat was in balance, pointed higher, and faster. Today, I can out-perform similar length and design boats, and other boats that should be able to waterline us. Another advantage, if you race, we gained 6 seconds/mile in PHRF handicap, by going back to working sails. And, we can sail our numbers. Our wind range is from about 6-8 knots on the low end, and up to about 35-40 knots. Anything less than 6 knots, we have the engine running.

[Keith]

I think that Steve and John hit the nail on the head. The 30C was designed by Carl Alberg to be a cutter. In lighter air condition you hoist the asymmetrical spinnaker. This in fact is what the Cape Dory sales brochures show (full main, staysail and asymmetrical spinnaker).

John, you may be able to save some diesel in those light air condition if you fly the asymmetrical spinnaker. of course if you don't have one the cost vs benefit may be difficult to justify.

PS with a snuffer (sock) on the asymmetrical spinnaker you can easily single hand it and flying it with a whisker pole down wind can be fun.

Enjoy,
Keith

[John Martin]

Hi Keith,

Your comments on the asym spinn are not lost on me. I do have an asym spinn with a sock tube. This spinnaker is from our previous CD28, However, I do not have a masthead spinn bail. And, I have a reluctant crew. At some time in the future I may have to make it work. We fly a symmetrical spinnaker on the boat (non CD) that I race on, and I love it. For off the wind, it is the only way to fly.

[Neil Gordon]

The 30C was designed by Carl Alberg to be a cutter. In lighter air condition you hoist the asymmetrical spinnaker. This in fact is what the Cape Dory sales brochures show (full main, staysail and asymmetrical spinnaker).

Agreed that Carl Alberg designed the boat as a cutter, but I suspect the asymmetrical in the brochure is more about marketing than Carl's sail plan.