Port and Starboard nomenclature

[grluecke]

I'm having this argument with my father-in-law, and since I'm married to his daughter, in the end he will be right, regardless...

BUT:

I finally spot that green can in the distance, and there are rocks to one side of it.

He says, "Stay to starboard of the can."

I say, "Pass that can keeping it to port."

Is either correct? What is the right way to say this?

I'll confess I have not read **every** word in Bowditch, but I'm sure the answer is in there...

There must be a standard; if I want opinions: **I** don't think buoys have a port and starboard, and **he** is using port and starboard mapped to the left and right of our boat.

Anyone have the right answer (or "starboard' answer) ??

[Oswego John]

Anyone have the right answer (or "starboard' answer) ??

I don't know if my answer will be the stb'd answer or not or maybe it is only my opinion. Whatever...

Maybe it would be clearer to say "Stay to the channel side of the buoy."

It goes without saying, "Red, right, return." (to port)

To satisfy my curiosity, what color buoys do they use for channel markers on the sweet water, Cross Iowa Canal?

BTW, to keep peace in the family, you already know the stb'd answer.

O J (big grin)

[Klem]

In all of the commercial and recreational work that I have done, we would say leave it to port.

[Bill Goldsmith]

I think you are more correct here. In piloting, the terms port and starboard should always refer to the boat you are on, and other objects' or vessels relationship to your boat. (Of course you can still say "hey look at the cannonball embedded in the starboard side of that boat over there!!"

But when piloting it's confusing to say "stay to starboard of the can." Under way, you want no room for misunderstanding, and the very fact that you posted this question means the command could be misunderstood. It could be misunderstood to mean one of two things: bear right ("starboard") and keep the can to port, or bear left and leave the can to starboard. However, the can does not have a starboard side, while most vessels clearly do. It's cleaner to say "stay to the right of the can," or even better, as said above, "bear right and leave the can to port." Or "bear left and keep the can to starboard." Better yet, "DON'T HIT THAT ROCK!!"

[Maine_Buzzard]

Cundy's is a bit confusing- The Green Can #3 marks a ledge at the NE side of the harbor. If you are passing into the harbor from the east, keep it on the starboard side of the boat. If you are going up the channel to the Basin, keep it to port. Same with leaving the harbor. Anyway, the nearby rocks will always answer the question.

Little Whaleboat Island ledge seems to be the keel killer in Casco bay. No mark, and it goes from 80 to 2 feet in about 300 yards. The chart always stays in the cockpit when I'm out.

[Duncan]

...He says, "Stay to starboard of the can."

I say, "Pass that can keeping it to port."

You are correct, and he is dangerously wrong.
Starboard and port are sides of a boat, not directions like left and right, or North and South.

As several people have noted above, the sensible way everyone else seems to say this is "leave that can to port".
Even better, "stay (South/North/...) of that can", since that relates easily to the chart and the compass.

The way he says it could easily be taken in the normal way (i.e. "put that can to starboard").
This would lead to exactly the wrong result, so it's dangerously wrong.

Just tell him the "sides of the boat" part, and he should get it without feeling criticized.

[JimMc]

You should say "leave it to port" in this situation. Besides, the green can is cylindrical. It has no front, no back, and no sides... and therefore there is no starboard side of the can.

I did once meet a nun with a "bad side", but that's another story entirely.

Jim.
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[MFC]

I am with Jim and Duncan. "Leave it to port". The can has no port or starboard - neither does a daymarker, a fish or a pedestrian. The point of reference is always the boat. Just toss him another beer and tell him to look for the next mark -).

Matt

[Paul D.]

You are correct. In my coast guard license class and test (which did nothing to make me a better sailor but did give great nomenclature skills!) leave the can to port or starboard was the proper reference. If you are referring to the can, you should use north, south, east etc. or wind references to describe where you wish to go. I.e. "Go to the north of that green can." "Stay to windward of that buoy."

When I was teaching sailing, I would also say "leave that buoy to port" while physically pointing to the port side of the boat. It was a good teachable moment for exactly this kind of discussion on clarity of communication aboard.

Show your father in law this message thread with a bit of a friendly smile, as in, "I found the solution to our question." and have a few beers handy!

[rtbates]

Ocean inlet or inland? N to S or E to W? on the ICW? It changes with each... Red right returning is good for ocean inlets...

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

It is red right returning except on the ICW where red is on the major land mass side. Also just for the heck of it I will mention that ICW markers have yellow reflective squares or triangles on them to id them as ICW markers.

[Neil Gordon]

I'd say "keep it to port" or "leave it to port," although "stay to the right of the can" might work, too. "Port refers to the side of the boat, but "right," as a steering order, would make sense to me, too.

"Stay north of the can" would work but only if you're sure the helmsman knows where that is! I'm more used to seeing that reference in chart work, where you'd see the instruction, "stay north of the shoal." With a visual on a floating aid, I'd make instructions clear in directions that are relative to the marker.

[grluecke]

Back to this topic, my son gave me a copy of L. Francis Herreshoff's "The Compleat Cruiser" for Christmas. Still making my way through it, but already have the new phrase "Down killock!" for lowering my anchor!

While quite dated, in the very first chapter, the daughter, Primrose, questions the buoy placement in the Annasquam River and Gloucester Harbor. Noting that there are many entrances that don't conform to the "red right returning" rule, he says:

"...[in this case] we should carry the red buoys and beacons to port..."

I think that is the turn of phrase I was looking for, "Argh, mateys, carry that next buoy to starboard to avoid the Siren's rocks!"

[Dean Abramson]

"Leave it to port."

You are right, and your father-in-law is, well, your wife's father...

[Oswego John]

It's funny (hmmm, maybe not so funny) how we forget some important things and hold on to the memory of trivial, incidental facts that were learned decades ago.

One case in point that occured easily eighty years ago was once I asked an old shipwright who workd for my grandfather, how could you remember so many things about boats and ships. One question in particular was how do people remember what color was used on what side of a boat

His simple answer to me was "Do you know what port wine is?" I answered yes.

Then he asked me "What color is the wine?"

I still remember that incident after almost eighty years but I still have to write down and carry a note reminding me what my cell phone number is.

Some things do not compute. lol

O J