How to know when you are heeling 15 degrees?

[tom ricks]

Some questions from your novice sailor about angle of heel:

I would like to understand better how far I can, and should, heel my Typhoon Weekender safely. I’ve searched “angle of heel” on this board and read the comments, but still am not sure.
(http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... el#p138168)
The consensus seemed to be that if water is coming over into the cockpit, you’re heeled too damn far. (http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... eel#p37204)

But I still wonder: At what point am I in danger of capsizing?

The question arises because the other day I was sailing on Penobscot Bay in light winds with the main and genny up. Heading home, I came out from behind an island to a part of the bay where the fetch is unimpeded straight up from open ocean. There was a storm to the south, and within two or three minutes I was in whitecaps.

I’m an old whitewater kayaker where rolling the boat is part of the fun. But as I stood on the port coaming it occurred to me that I was not in my old Dagger RPM kayak, where it is possible to paddle for a bit at a 80 degree heel by sculling the paddle, so I let out the main and dropped back down flat. And then I took down the genny, which was good, because the gusts picked up even more (and then died 15 minutes later, I suspect because the storm was passing to the west of me, behind Coaster's stern).

So, my questions:

1. How far is it safe to heel? At what point am I in danger of capsizing?

2. How can I sense what 20 degrees of heel feels like? When I am sailing at a heel, I don’t know how to measure that.

3. If the rail is “just kissing” the water, what angle am I at? Is that 15 degrees, which I take it is the optimum angle? If not, what is the best way to sense 15?

Thanks,
Tom

[Dick Kobayashi]

Tom,

1. You can buy for small money an inclinometer.

2. 15 degrees is 1/12 of 180 degrees or 1/6 of 90 degrees, so you can estimate.

3. Once you know, you know. but it is more by feel and experience than by instrumentation.

Also you will not capsize - that is not the problem, but you can go over far enough to get a great deal of water in the cockpit, and this is a problem - water is supposed to stay out of the boat.

[azucha]

CAPSIZE RATIO: Some years ago the technical committee of the Cruising Club of America came up with a simple formula to determine if a boat had blue water capability. The CR compares beam with displacement since excess beam contributes to capsize and heavy displacement reduces capsize vulnerability. The formula is the maximum beam divided by the cube root of the displacement in cubic feet:
Capsize Ratio = Beam/Displacement.333.

The displacement in cubic feet can be found by dividing the displacement in pounds by 64.

The boat is acceptable if the result of the calculation is 2.0 or less but, of course, the lower the better. For example, a 12 meter yacht of 60,000 lbs displacement and 12 foot beam will have a CR Number of 1.23, so would be considered very safe from capsize. A contemporary light displacement yacht, such as a Beneteau 311 (7716 lbs, 10'7" beam) has a CR number of 2.14. Based on the formula, while a fine coastal cruiser, such a yacht may not be the best choice for ocean passages.

The Ty's capsize ratio is 1.98, a very stable platform.

[Steve Laume]

When I was sailing the Typhoon I always told people, it will not flip over.

That is pretty much the truth. You can heel the thing right over and it will eventually spill enough wind to stand back up again. Not something you really want to do but the point is you can play around and not worry too much.

15* is not a magic number. I have an inclinometer and it rarely sits at any one particular place. It is more like an average you tend to notice. 15 to 20 degrees is pretty much the sweet spot. Once you get comfortable you will know when she is sailing well because the wave sets up against the hull and travels down the entire length of the hull. The high point might just be kissing the rail and will slosh over if there are choppy waves.

If water finds it's way into the cockpit you are definitely over canvased.

The Typhoon or any Cape Dory is a very forgiving boat, Steve.

[tjr818]

If your can of Guinness starts to spill you are tipping too much. You can either reduce the main or reduce the Guinness. Seriously I don't worry about healing too much, I am more concerned when I am running downwind and the wind picks up to the point where I feel over powered. It's hard to reef then.

[Dick Kobayashi]

Just another thought - Tys came with roller reefing - not a good system. changing to slab/jiffy reefing doesn't cost much and you will be able to easily reduce sail.

[Brian2]

I don't understand the formula. If it is beam divided by cube root of displacement, the example given is 60,000 lbs and 12' beam.

60,000 divided by 64 = 937.5. Then 12' beam divided by 937.5 = .0128

What am I missing? What is the CR of my CD 28?

[tom ricks]

From Tom (the original poster):

Thanks for all these thoughts. Reading them over, I begin to think that the true danger is not capsizing but falling out of the boat. I noticed when I was standing on the port coaming that it was difficult to reach down and free the mainsheet without losing my balance and toppling toward the port rail.

Best,
Tom

[Carl Thunberg]

My approach has always been to use weather helm as my guide. If I'm fighting the tiller and feeling like I'm out of control, then the boat is out of balance, and I'm either over-canvassed or I need to let the genny out and the traveler down. If the boat feels balanced with slight weather helm, then you'll know where that 15-20 degree optimum heel angle is. That's when all is right with the world.

[rtbates]

Several instruments for measuring angle of heel. Our compass had one..

Our 25D likes to beat with the rail just dipping under... Is the fastest to windward mainly due to increase in pointing ability...

Comfort level is a personal thing... No you won't capsize..

I prefer to sit on the low side. Better view and that's where the sheet winch is My grandson likes to sit on the lee rail outside the cockpit and drag his feet in the water...

If you get knocked down or over powered, let go of the tiller NOW and she'll pop up like a cork...

[Jim Davis]

A boat with a hull design like the Cape Dory and a tiller you should be able to steer with a light touch from one hand. If you are using "white knuckles" and a lot of arm strength you need to balance the boat and possibly reduce sail.

[Oswego John]

TGFC , or thank goodness for coamings.

When you bury the rail and ship some water, remember that more often than not, the cockpit self bailing scupper is below the water line.

Check valves, anyone? Jest saying. (Oh, what fun we can have with that topic.)



O J

[Gary H]

My approach has always been to use weather helm as my guide. If I'm fighting the tiller and feeling like I'm out of control, then the boat is out of balance, and I'm either over-canvassed or I need to let the genny out and the traveler down. If the boat feels balanced with slight weather helm, then you'll know where that 15-20 degree optimum heel angle is. That's when all is right with the world.

I could use a little lesson here on the methods of spilling wind from the mainsail. I understand how lowering the traveler will increase the angle of the boom and thus spill some wind. Why is not as effective to pull the traveler to windward and then release the main sheet - thus creating twist which would spill wind at the top of the sail but perhaps keep the rest of the sail from luffing? The whole issue of mainsail twist can get a bit confusing to us relative beginners as it seems that it can be used in light air to catch more wind and possibly in heavy air to spill some wind.

[Adamhagan]

Some insights to get started, but I am far from expert. Jim is right-on, a Cape Dory has terrific balance and I am routinely amazed at how she compensates for my repeated ignorance.

In Heavy Wind:
You goal is to produce a flat sail---you have a few tools to do that!
#1: The outhaul-should be pulled in tight, bringing the clew back and presenting a straight foot.
#2: The main halyard--winched in tight presenting a straight luff...careful not to over-tighten which will permanently damage the sail shape.
#3: The mainsheet--after #1 and #2 sheeted in tight and this will finally produce a straight leach.
#4: The traveler--needs to be adjusted to the apparent wind to allow you to sheet-in the mainsheet tight. You will then be effectively "spilling wind" off a flat sail.

In Light Wind:
Basically the opposite of the above...you want to produce a billowing, "loose" sail which will catch all the available wind.

You should look for the center of effort/greatest curvature = Draft at 50% for the main and 45% for the genoa. Now you can tighten the backstay, producing greater mast bend, which will reduce your draft. You can effect the shape with the cunningham and should certainly employ a boom vang if sailing off the wind. Sail shape is such an art.

I would suggest club racing, you will never get a better lesson in sail shape then in a good competitive fleet. You then must figure out what the person pulling away from you in the same class of boat is doing different!

Question: I do wish I had a traveler for my mizzen, I feel I can get so much more from her. Does anyone deploy blocks from the stern rails or other methods to maximize upwind sailing performance. Yes, I know I have a ketch which is limited upwind...however, I can tell there is still more there.

Good luck!

[jepomer]

I would suggest club racing, you will never get a better lesson in sail shape then in a good competitive fleet. You then must figure out what the person pulling away from you in the same class of boat is doing different!

My wife and I have participated in local club racing for 2 seasons now. We had spent several years trying to figure out things by ourselves then decided to take lessons. Our instructors encouraged us to participate in club racing to practice and hone the skills they taught us.

There is usually a good mixture of skills. In the beginning we were always in the back. But that is a good position to observe how the knowledgeable sailors do it. Since we are "racing", we cannot simply turn on the motor to overcome a minor situation. As a result our skills are tested and pushed.

We still have a long ways to go, but we enjoy our day sailing much more. Besides, the camaraderie is supportive. Join in a few of the local regattas. We sail for fun. We are not the "type A" personality that needs to win. We are simply looking to be competent sailing our boat.

Not long ago heeling more than 5 degrees produced a certain glare from my wife's eyes. Now when we lean toward 30 degrees, her looks is definitely focused, but that glare is gone... and I am more comfortable with it, too.