My Typhoon Sank Last Night

[ipswich]

My 18' Typhoon Weekender sank last night in the marina, in Stony Point, New York. The marina reported over 5ft swells and high winds- and they lost two boats. They report worse damages than during hurricane Irene!

Does anyone know what to expect from a situation like this? are cape dory's easily reparable?
Does marina insurance cover this sort of thing? i only have homeowner's insurance!

[Hutch_north]

I'm so sorry! I can't imagine how I would feel if my Ty sank.

A friend of ours' Beneteau 41' broke its mooring line in a heavy blow a few years ago, and ended up on its side on a rocky beach. They knew a local diver with salvage experience and the necessary equipment. He refloated the boat and got it to a nearby shipyard, and the boat's now fixed and sailing. They did have good insurance and a good experience with their adjustor.

Do you know why the boat sank? If it was just swamped but has no hull damage, perhaps it can be refloated, pumped out and dried out. I do not know whether an event like that would cause water to soak then rot the balsa core in the decks - others here might know better. If there's hull damage, it might be a different deal and given the prices of Typhoons, cheaper to replace than repair.

Good luck!

[barfwinkle]

she can be refloated. take some big inner tubes stuff them one at a time into the cabin, inflating them as you go. The pros will have some stuff for this as well.

Sorry, but other than the "soft" stuff aboard I would think the boat itself would be fine. You need to get the motor our of the water ASAP and you marina should know how to deal with it afterwards.

again sorry for your loss (albeit hopefully recoverable).

[Oswego John]

Ipswich,

Bummer. I really feel for you and your situation.

There are so many variables that are possible in a case like this. Some marinas have the boat owner sign a form to idemnify and hold them harmless in the case of a catastrophe. Some marinas are more lenient to do business with.

To the best of my knowledge, I would say that the homeowners insurance policy, when specifically included, will cover your boat when it is physically present on your property. Any other time, whether self transporting it, being tied up in a slip or on a mooring, you would have to have a separate boat insurance policy to cover your boat. I hope that I am wrong saying this.

The good news, if you can call it that, is that the Ty is one tough little boat. It is well made and can take a beating and bounce back. As Bill mentioned, it can be refloated and checked out for any possible damage. Knock on wood. It looks like the mast and standard rigging is okay.

There is one point that I always advise boat owners to do and that is to check or have someone else check on the boat frequently. If the boat is open and, if it is an early vintage Ty sans self bailing, water can accumulate in the bilge and in time reduce the freeboard. During a heavy blow, this invites trouble. On my Tys, I always used a simple boom tent to deflect rainwater.

Good luck with your next steps.
O J

[Steve Laume]

That just sucks!

Given her situation, you could go with a combination of float bags (inner tubes) and some lines under the keel to both dock fingers. You will need a block and tackle or a come along to get her to the point that she is awash. The main thing you are going to need is a really high volume pump. These can be rented at most rental outfits.

This is something you could do yourself if you or a friend is a diver.

Unless she got beat up bad before she sank I can't imagine she will have suffered much from the experience. If there is hull damage, Gorilla brand duct tape is supposed to stick to wet surfaces. Pick up a couple of rolls just in case and maybe bring a sheet of plastic too. The motor is your biggest concern as far as doing something quickly. Any electronics are probably toast but the boat should be fine.

I am so sorry to hear about this and will be wishing you the best of luck in your salvage, Steve

[Klem]

I am sorry to see what happened to your boat. I have raised a few sunken boats over the years and it is not easy but it is not wildly difficult provided you are mechanically inclined and take your time.

Provided that the hull is still sound, the goal is to get the cockpit coaming out of the water because you can bail everything else from there. To do this, you will need to lift the approximate water weight of the boat which I would guess is in the neighborhood of 1500 lbs. If you are using air, you get about 8lbs of lift for every gallon so you need on the order of 200 gallons of air which is not inconsequential. Correct placement of this air is key to keeping the boat stable as it comes up. Ideally, you would have air bags at the 4 corners attached as high up as possible. However, this is not practical so you need to settle for something else. One easy place to fill with flotation is the cabin however, you need to put it in more than just the cabin for strength and balance reasons. If you can get a strong strap or line under the keel and secured from moving around, attaching flotation to this so that the top of the flotation is level with the deck is a good way to go.

The trick for a do it yourself job is finding a substitute for lift bags. Things like fenders and life jackets provide a bit of flotation but not nearly enough to lift a ty. What you want is a bag that has secure attachment points and can be inflated once it is in place. People have gotten creative over the years and used things like inflatable dinghies, etc. Finding a suitable lifting bag is probably what will make or break you doing it yourself. The pros can come in and do this very efficiently with their bags and compressors and it might just be worth calling them.

As soon as the cockpit coaming is totally out of the water, you can start bailing. A pump is nice but a ty is small enough that a 5 gallon bucket would do the trick. Just make sure you don't step into the boat until it is high enough in the water to support your weight.

As others have said, once the boat is up, getting your outboard serviced is key. With everything else, liberally washing with fresh water is a good start. Things won't ever properly dry if covered in salt water and they will corrode. Chance are good that if you have an electrical system, it will need to be replaced.

Good luck with everything.

[Russell]

I helped refloat a cal25 that sank a couple years ago. Probably pretty similar weight. We used come alongs attached to the pilings to lift it as much as possible (you need tallish pilings and in good condition of course). This got the coaming just barely out of the water, with the bow down and stern up more we got it so the aft part of the coaming was totally dry and the forward part was still a few inches under water. At that point we used things to dam the still underwater part of the coaming (peices of scrap plywood) then started a high volume gas powered pump. Really it mostly worked well, in this case the biggest issue was that this was a project boat and it was missing half its portlights(part of why it sank), so we had to dam those as well, if it had its portlights it would have been a snap.

The marina may not like you using come alongs on its pilings, but perhaps they wont mind. Really a piling should be able to handle it and its not like you are trying to lift it entirely this way. I wouldnt try this method with anything larger really, but a ty it should be fine.

Good luck, some good advice given by others. I wouldnt worry too much other then the effort to get it up, the boat itself will be fine if not left down there too long. The various plywood and balsa is the big concern, but it will take time for the water to do long term damage. As said already, jump in and get the outboard out right away and start working on it, I have got a couple sunk 2 strokes running again, a 4 stroke might be a bit harder. Once floated, empty it entirely, hosing everything off with fresh water and run a dehumidifier in it pretty much nonstop for at least a month.

[ipswich]

thank you everyone for all the advice and help! it's in salt water and i hope that won't do too much damage. we are going to try to get it out tomorrow morning first thing going for the motor. the marina will be doing most of the work (i hope) otherwise i'm sunk! i am not sure who the 'professionals' would be to call but perhaps they will need to be called.

i will definitely hose it off with fresh water, even power-wash it and set the dehumidifier in it. i am certain it will be OUT of the water for the season now. boo hoo! there is still at least a month of good sailing on the hudson.

it's a deeply shocking thing to see your boat under water, a very unnatural position for a sailboat!

[sloopjohnl]

a '69 ty sank next to my weekender many years ago. owner's sister left a drain hose hanging over the side in the water and it back siphoned into the boat. my auto mechanic was a Navy diver and runs a volunteer dive unit that performs personal (usually a body) and equipment/material rescues. there were two divers and two air tubes. the tubes were long enough to reach from one side of the hull to the other under the bottom. they filled the tubes underwater with a spare tank of compressed air. i helped stabilize the boat by using the halyards as the boat rose. once the gunwales broke the water, the pumpout began. the boat was only under for two days and suffered no damage, but it did not sink in a storm either. required a good bit of cleaning once on the hard.

[Klem]

thank you everyone for all the advice and help! it's in salt water and i hope that won't do too much damage. we are going to try to get it out tomorrow morning first thing going for the motor. the marina will be doing most of the work (i hope) otherwise i'm sunk! i am not sure who the 'professionals' would be to call but perhaps they will need to be called.

i will definitely hose it off with fresh water, even power-wash it and set the dehumidifier in it. i am certain it will be OUT of the water for the season now. boo hoo! there is still at least a month of good sailing on the hudson.

it's a deeply shocking thing to see your boat under water, a very unnatural position for a sailboat!

The professionals will depend on your area. Both Sea Tow and Towboat US get involved in some of this work. The bigger salvage companies are unlikely to want to do a boat this small although you never know. The other people who tend to have the gear are the commercial divers, a lot of the gear is applicable to moving moorings and diving.

Good luck.

[Duncan]

Sorry for your troubles. It happened to a previous boat of mine, but we raised her relatively easily.

The boat was sunk in about 5-6 feet of water - it looks like yours is about the same?

We passed stout lines under the keel, and then sank two pairs of barrels until they were almost completely submerged (these barrels were the big blue 45 gallon kind, the ones that they use to float docks on).

We attached the lines around the barrels, and then blew the water out of them with air from a compressor. The boat came right up. As described above, then we started up a big rented pump once the boat was awash. The water was right out of her in less than ten minutes.

Good luck, please let me know if you need any more specifics?

ps. Don't turn on anything electrical "to see if it works". Open it all up and rinse it very thoroughly in fresh water (to flush away all the salt). Let it dry completely, and it may work, as long as all the fresh water has dried out of it.

[Oswego John]

I'd like to add some comments to the good advice that has already been given. It's only my personal feeling but I feel that it is safer to raise the hull with external slings or lines under the hull than with internal air bags or tubes.

A Ty, when empty, weighs a little less than a ton on the hard. When submerged, it takes much less effort to lift it up to the surface. Once that the boat rises above the water's surface, it will weigh almost double the weight. This is because you will also be lifting the weight of the water inside of the hull that is above the water level.

Air bags, when placed inside of the hull will only provide buoyancy while below and up to the water's level. For instance, if placed inside of the cuddy cabin, the boat will only be raised up until the air bag under the roof reaches the water level. To raise the hull, the bags have to be secured low in the hull.

The odds are that this won't be a problem but it could be. Don't put any undue strain on the joint where the hull joins the deck.

When we had the displeasure to have to raise someone's submerged hull, we underslung the hull a little aft of center. Stay away from the rudder. This would raise the stern a little ahead of the bow and the coamings would break the surface first. Once the coamings were above the surface, we could begin pumping without having to raise the total weight of the entire boat.

We had a high volume gas driven pump to empty the hull in short order. You can probably rent such a pump from a tool rental business.

Good luck,
O J

[rtbates]

So sorry to hear that..

I can't offer any advice as to what to expect

You should be very concerned in finding out why it happened...

best of luck

[Sea Hunt Video]

My sympathies as well. That is a sad picture.

When things calm down, I would be interested to know if you were able to determine the cause(s) of the sinking. I know you said you had 5 ft swells, high winds, etc. Did the cockpit (and cabin) just get overwhelmed with water that could not drain fast enough out of the scuppers in the cockpit

[ipswich]

hello everyone- it has been an enormously frustrating day. the marina was completely under-staffed and woefully under-equipt to deal with the issue and nothing got decided upon or resolved by the time the low tide was coming in and it was too late. i called sea tow (just to see) and they said they would charge me $1800 to raise her! which i thought was too much. tomorrow at low tide we are going to try to lift her by attaching lines to pilings and winching her up until we can use the pump at the coamings. i am not sure how this will all work out but that is what was decided by the marina folk, who are now charging me $600 for this misadventure. unfortunately i do not have insurance on the boat. perhaps this is a lesson?

we are still not sure how the boat got submerged. the conventional wisdom at the moment is that high waves submerged it but it is still possible it hit the dock very hard on the bow perhaps. but we won't really know until we start getting her up. she's only in about 4-5 feet of water at low tide. but it's cold, salty water!

thanks for all your advice!
tim