first-time buyer needs advice

[Megunticook]

Hello--my family and I (wife and 2 boys ages 6 and 11) live in Midcoast Maine and are getting very close to buying a CD25 or 22 for sailing in Penobscot Bay. Our primary goal is to get us and our gear back and forth to an island, 11 miles from our harbor. But we also envision doing some day sailing and I may do some overnights with the kids (wife isn't interested in sleeping aboard).

Our main criteria for a boat are safety, reliability/ruggedness, and affordability. We want something that's in pretty good shape, that's been well taken care of, and we'll be diligent with maintenance.

So far we've looked at one CD25 ($4500) and one CD22 ($7500). Later today we're looking at an Alberg 22 ($6900). What are your opinions about the 25 vs. the 22? The cockpit seems about the same size, obviously less cabin space on the 22. But the kids and I wanted to sleep on the boat, I'm sure we could do it. The 25 needed TLC but the 22 was in excellent shape.

What about carrying capacity? Would it be easier to bring 2-3 guests on the 25 for a few hours, or is 4 about the limit? An appreciable difference in that regard vs. the 2?

The 22 had some bubbling in the gelcoat, owner said they improperly shrink-wrapped it one year and moisture got in there. How big an issue is this? Cosmetic, or potentially structural?

What are the advantages to having the outboard in a well as opposed to hanging off the stern?

The 22 has an old Evenrude 2-stroke. I'd be inclined to have a new 4-stroke. What are your opinions on that? I plan to do very little motoring, but I want something 100% reliable, bulletproof, and as quiet as possible.

The 22 has been stored in a yard for 8 years without being in the water. Any issues to be concerned with? The interior was amazingly clean and smelled fresh, no sign of mold or moisture.

Any other advice? We will definitely get a marine survey done--my understanding is that you agree on a sale price first, then get the marine survey, and adjust as necessary.

Thanks--we're very excited, have been thinking about this for years. Now seems like the perfect time to buy a sailboat, total buyer's market.

p.s. Any significant differences between the Alberg 22 and a CD22?

[Uffda]

Have you looked at the cd22 at Knight's marina in Rockland ? The 22 ft cd's are nice sized boats, not to big, not to small.

[Adamhagan]

I will direct you to my first post 1 year ago:

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... 90#p154390

Cape Dory's have less beam than many modern boat manufacturers; they will also be less 'roomy' because of this. This design is what makes even the smallest yacht very seaworthy and gives me peace of mind with my two little girls.

I was very happy I bought a CD25 over a CD22, but we had so much fun I got my wife to drink the cool-aid; exactly 1 year later we bought a CD30. The CD25 will be great for day sails, probably the best, but will reduce the capacity for weekend excursions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRke3q3F1pM&feature=plcp

I met with Russell last year and he mentioned the best thing about a Cape Dory is the forums. It is like never expiring computer tech support...for your boat. I know very little, but there are wonderfully knowledgable people who you will grow to count on.

[Jdpmus]

Second the motion on the CD25. Though not roomy for adults in the cabin, can be made to work, especially for kids. Our grandkids treat it as a playhouse: standing headroom for them, enclosed head for privacy, and a forward hatch that allows them to stay inside yet still experience sailing as if being on the deck.

We have a 15 year old Johnson 6hp two cycle in the outboard well. Local marine service tuned it up so that it's reliable. Looked at replacing it with a Tohatsu 6hp 4 cycle this season, but there is some question whether it will fit in the well and allow the lazarette cover to close (there's a long thread on this forum about this motor and its twins, Mercurys and Nissans).

We are into our third year of restoring the old girl, but we have sailed her since day one in 2010 and it has given us the time to consider changes and work we need to perform.

We've sailed with four adults, two teenagers and three under 6 and never felt crowded. Wouldn't recommend that unless you have earplugs.

[pete faga]

If your primary goal is to get your family 11 miles of shore I would consider a powerboat!

[Maine_Buzzard]

Go for the smallest, simplest boat that you can find that does not need major repairs. Something that you can get on the water right now and enjoy this last few weeks, and then have only the usual spring launch issues next year.

I'm honestly thinking that I need three boats... The 30 for long weekends and offshore adventures, a trailerable 18 - 22' for running up to Pen bay for a weekend knockabout, and a 22 - 24' offshore powerboat for the trips where we want to get somewhere and back regardless of the wind. I have to admit, a powerboat and small sailboat would be a really good idea around here.

Is the island an occasional nice to be by spot, or do you have property there? Round trip would be a full day, depending on the weather and wind in either boat.

I'll bet that either size boat will be adaptable to your needs. Go for the heavier boat, as it will ride better in the open bay.

[Gary M]

I own and love my CD22, but frankly can not picture my wife and I plus a 6 and an 11 year old aboard at the same time in anything but very good weather conditions.

Plus the kids will be even bigger next year and the year after.

I've got to believe the CD25 has more storage but then again the CD 25 has a motor well and the CD 22 has a lazarette.

All and all, if two adults and two kids are usually sailing together, I think I would be looking at a little bigger boat. Maybe a 27.

Good luck,
Gary

[Adamhagan]

Before my CD25 I owned a trailerable Hunter 22 for a couple years. It was really a great lake boat, large freeboard, tons of interior room, and a companionway entrance made for loading livestock.

However, the first big gust would knock me off course and the weather helm was awesome. I had dreams of a knock down and the boat filling with water. Aligning the perfect boat with real-time needs is always a challenge. For esthetic beauty its hard to beat the CD22!

[NateHanson]

Before my CD25 I owned a trailerable Hunter 22 for a couple years. It was really a great lake boat, large freeboard, tons of interior room, and a companionway entrance made for loading livestock.

However, the first big gust would knock me off course and the weather helm was awesome. I had dreams of a knock down and the boat filling with water. Aligning the perfect boat with real-time needs is always a challenge. For esthetic beauty its hard to beat the CD22!

I'm not sure judging the seaworthiness of the 22 with dissimilar boats that length (like the Hunter 22) tells you very much. The 22, in my experience is very mannerly on a 20 knot day, in 3' seas. However, it gets crowded quickly, especially in heavier wind. I'd say it fits 4 nicely on a moderate day, and when things get a little spicy, 2 or 3 people in the cockpit is better. My kids spend much of their time on the foredeck, or playing in the vee-berth, so that affords more space (though the foredeck isn't an option when the wind kicks up.

Which island are you talking about. The difference between getting to Monhegan vs. getting to Islesboro is substantial. I wouldn't get the 22 for a more offshore island, but if you're talking 11 miles of inland sailing, the 22 could be just the ticket. With any 20-something foot sailboat, you're looking at a good 3 hours each way, if conditions are good. But in Maine, if your destination is 11 miles NE of your harbor, you'll spend 3 hours getting there, and 5 getting back (upwind).

One of the best things about the 22 is that it is so easily trailered. I'd look around for a 22 being sold with a trailer. There have been a couple in Mass and Maine this summer, and that saves a huge amount of money on boat hauling. (That's the main reason we replaced our 26' keelboat with the CD 22 this year). Or you can shop for a trailer separately, but that gets expensive.

If the blisters in the topside feel like paint bubbles, and were truly caused by the shrink wrap being laid right on the topside, then it's most likely that the topside was painted, and the blister is only a paint problem. It's cosmetic, and the solution would likely be to repaint the topsides. It's a 2-weekend DIY job, or a $5000 professional job (DIY looks nearly as good, but not perfect.)

Nate

[Megunticook]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

The island is not offshore, but in Penobscot Bay. But have to cross the west channel, about 4 miles of open water exposed to the Gulf of Maine to the south, then another 2 miles or so until you get far enough east that North Haven blocks the open exposure. I have kayaked the route often and it's generally fine, but of course you must pick your days and keep an eye out for things to change.

The CD25 is probably a better bet than the 22. I would get a bigger boat but then we're talking 5 figures in price, and that's out of our current budget.

[Johnd]

We love our 22 here on the Chesapeake bay. The storage space is insatiable, but unless you're shorter is stature, like me at 5'5'', (wife too), you may be banging your head and elbows below deck.

Our boat was only mid-high 4 figures when we bought her, but I've upgraded enough to say she's now worth low to mid 5 figures.

She's been well cared for. Basically you are going to get what you pay for.

Best of luck!

[roger]

OUTBOARD----the Tohatsu 6 hp sail pro works well on my 22. With the shift lever facing forward , shifting near the dock slip is no big deal. I installed a fuel tank shelf in the aft cockpit locker for the taller , newer tanks. The hose is led through the port side of the cover. Also a vent. PM me if you wish to communicate Roger

[KDreese]

I had the Nissan Sail Pro (I believe the same as the Tohastu) and it was nice on the CD25.

You asked what the Pros/Cons were for an outboard in the well. IMO the Pros are the look of the boat having the motor in the well. Also, its a nice setup with the gas tanks on either side. However, when running the motor the hatch should be open to ventilate. The biggest con for me was that the motor sits in the water all the time and gets fouled with barnacles, weed, etc. I only used the boat on weekends and by then the motor looked like a bush. I was concerned about the intake being covered so I always jumped overboard and went for a swim with a brush to clean it off. Kind of a pain... if I were to do it a again I would get a boat the typical external outboard mounting with lift.

KD