Seller's rant

[Steve Laume]

I was going to post this on a thread below but I believe it needs a post of it's own.

There seems to be a trend towards unrealistic, ruthlessly low, sight unseen offers for things that people have for sale at an already fair price.

I just went through this with an inflatable that I had for sale. I had a very low, firm price, advertised on Craigs List and the guy offers me half after showing up an hour late for our appointment. That is after he rescheduled our meeting numerous times with lots of lengthy excuses. He then goes on to mention the things that were already disclosed in the add and factored into the price. He had a whole host of catch phrases like "what do you have to get for it". I told him I didn't have to get anything for it but it was well worth my asking price. He also offered to meet me half way. Half way from his half price offer, that is! After making that offer four times I told him that it was the fourth time he offered me that and the answer was still no. He said he had cash in hand and money talks. Well maybe a whole lot of money might, but his wasn't saying much to me.

He left after wasting way too much of my time. The really weird thing is that he called me about a half hour latter and said "you drive a hard bargain". He then offered to pay my price, which I had dropped $50.00 just to try to get rid of him, when he got the rest of the money. He offered to come up and give me a deposit, at which point I told him I didn't want to waste anymore time on this and that he should contact me when he had the rest of the money. The next day he called me at night and said he could come up and get it. I told him the next day would work out better for me and he only showed up 15Min, late this time with more excuses. He spent well over an hour giving me the money and loading the thing in his car, while telling me the story of his life which wasn't all that interesting.

The last guy to look at it, mentioned that it didn't have any oars which was clearly stated in the ad and was reflected in the price. I should have told him how sorry I was that there was no motor either and that I should probably be giving him money to take it that way.

I told my son about these encounters and he informed me there was TV show that had pawn brokers beating people up with these exact same lines.

I wasted the selling price in my time so I probably could have just given it to him and been ahead of the game.

We are generally not desperate when it comes to selling our much loved boats. It is not like I needed a couple of hundred bucks in cash to go buy some crack or something, Steve.

I hope this is not a lasting trend in bargaining for things that do have real value, Steve.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Steve:

I am in 110% agreement with your observations and experiences. A fair, honest seller sets a fair, honest price, discloses any issues or problems or "not included" items and there is ALWAYS some guy out there who says he will show up with "cash" but will only pay 1/2 or less of the asking price. With a few exceptions, they are NOT serious buyers. They are "tire kickers" (not sure what the equivalent nautical term would be )

In my opinion, you were more than kind and patient with this guy.

[lrak]

What about simply adding "price firm", "full payment in cash at pickup", "will not ship", and "not for sale to you Bob" to your sale listing?

From a buyers perspective, I tried to negotiate a 2% discount on the fairly priced CD I bought and the seller simply stated the price was firm. Stating that up front would have saved me 20 seconds of negotiating.

P.S. Bob already yelled at the seller of my boat before I came on the scene.

[Steve Laume]

I had a friend many years ago that was selling some sort of Harley he owned and probably cared about, for some reason unfathomable to me. A guy low balled him enough to be considered an insult. He might have even tried to counter offer when my friend did indeed use the it is not for sale to you line.

I always liked the response a Honda dealer gave to a buyer of a bike I was trying to sell. The guy wanted to take it to the dealer to have it checked out, which was fine with me. Then he asked the dealer what it was worth. I cringed a bit as I thought the question was a bit out of line. The dealer replied in a very calm voice that it was worth whatever the buyer was willing to pay and the seller was willing to accept. I always thought that was a great answer and words to live by, Steve.

[jerryaxler]

Welcome to the world of retail sales. When dealing with the public my experience has been to expect the worse and you will not be disappointed.

[Gary M]

I think we all hear what your saying Steve.

These real low ballers are most likely people who have more time on their hands then we do.

I recently had this problem selling a item for $280. In my mind a fair price but I was getting offers of $100.

Then a guy called and said he wanted to see it and I told him I had already turned down an offer of $230.

He thought about that for a second then came over to my place and payed asking price.

....................

Then years ago I was selling a Harley for $3500. A guy came by and offered me $1000. I pushed the HD back into the garage, closed the door and without saying anything headed for my back door ignoring him.

He bought the bike a half an hour later for $3300.

Go figure.

[tartansailor]

My ads say "no haggling, please" and like Gary, terminate the conversation
and walk on a low ball offer. I just don't have time for that class of people.
Dick

[riveredge]

Yes. What all of you said.

[mashenden]

In comparison to almost any other country, the US is not that bad. In many countries it is rare to ever buy something at the initial asking price. Think Mexico, where 50% is the average negotiation swing (side bar - 45% of all statistics are made up).

Here in the US, we have stores that have price tags... Very rarely is there haggling. Some enjoy the art of negotiation. Some do not. I used to enjoy it more than I do now, but it seems unavoidable.

If I advertise something on my own I do the research to know the right price, and advertise it as "reasonable offers considered". Knowing what it is worth allows me to factor in my "fun" value to know my absolute minimum price. I will always figure out if I am willing to take a loss that is justified by how much fun I have had. I'll add a small margin to the advertised price so that I can come off that price because that is what many want - it is a win/win. If I do not get or exceed my bottom line, then I hold onto whatever I am selling until either the market/season or my perspective changes.

All things considered, it seems to work well. But after each sale, I usually think; "Wow I am glad this is not my business because I'd be Ch 11"

But many still hate the haggle game, so maybe we should to start BoatMax or a Boat consignment business - Any investors?

[bamabratsche]

I fully agree that it's annoying at best to get low-balled on something, and I have also noticed the guy offering a number of half-price "sight unseen" offers to folks on this board. The pawn shop reality show theory seems entirely plausible, as they really try and up the conflict factor on those shows, and I'm sure it has given a lot of people some crazy ideas about what is appropriate.

However, from a recent buyer's perspective, I will second the point that it really helps to make it clear up front whether one is open to negotiation or not. I had a pretty negative experience when I was shopping around for my Typhoon--I found one in decent condition at a high-ish asking price, but was able to negotiate a lower price based on two other Typhoons also on the market in the same area. A few days later the seller had a change of heart and backed out of the deal with many unkind words about me and the whole situation. Needless to say, it would have saved everyone a lot of time and trouble, a 3-hour drive each way to see the boat, and a lot of unfounded pre-boat excitement, if he'd made it clear from the get-go that he was serious about his asking price.

The next seller I dealt with had an even higher asking price, but came down to a lower final one. He was very up-front from the beginning about his willingness to negotiate, it was a very straightforward process to come to an agreement, and we both walked away feeling good about the deal. He even helped me sail the boat to her new marina.

So I guess the bottom line is that a little communication about everyone's expectations at the beginning can go a long way. As a buyer, if someone made it clear at the beginning that their price was firm, then I would take them at their word and make my own decision about whether that was a price I was willing to pay. In the absence of any other indication, though, I'd hate to feel like I'd plunked down more money than the seller ever expected to get, just because I was being too nice to haggle.

Offering something ridiculous like half the asking price is just asking for problems, though...

[Bruce Dart]

At the risk of getting flamed, let me play devil's advocate.

I'm in the marine industry, and while I don't sell boats, I do get to see plenty of boat sales. The reality is that many boats are selling today at prices that would have seemed outrageously low just a few years ago. Many of these are 'distress sales', of course. And even those that don't appear to be from the ad copy really are due to a pending relocation, or an illness, lost job, or some other family or financial trouble. And let's face it, there are folks who start out pricing high hoping that someone will buy (I've had sellers like that tell me that if a buyer is dumb enough to pay them what they're asking, they'll be happy to take the fool's money.) So to a savvy buyer, hearing that the price is 'firm' doesn't mean anything. A savvy buyer believes, with justification, that these days it's very much a buyer's market, and because of that any price is negotiable. And even if it isn't, it's still worth asking (although having said that, I agree that there are some classy, and some not so classy ways to ask.)

Like it or not, the buyer and seller aren't there to become friends or do each other favors. If you want someone to like you buy a dog. The buyer wants the highest price he can get, the seller the lowest, and if they deal with each other honestly, they'll either arrive at a price that is mutually agreeable, or the sale won't go thru. And either way, no harm, no foul.

There's no such thing as a 'fair price'. The boat is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

[JWSutcliffe]

Steve:

This is why I have basically given up on Craigslist. Over the past year I have advertised various farm equipment items and repeatedly had to deal with much the same BS you mentioned. Lowball offers, no-shows, etc. Now I use EBay almost exclusively and don't have to deal with the nonsense.

[Duncan]

I've bought three boats and sold two. These transactions were all at, or very close to, the asking price.

Other, more important, things were discussed and agreed to, though, like timing, fixing things, delivery, and so on. All of these transactions were very sociable and satisfying, except for the one whacko .

I think the low-ball artists are basically just small-time traders, i.e.trying to buy low and sell high. They're kind of like the used-car dealers who'd annoy me when I'd advertise my car for sale. All the same patter, "high pressure, low price, cash now", totally focused on the price.


Real buyers, though, all have different priorities. Real transactions depend on legitimate sellers meeting legitimate buyers, and working everything out, not just haggling over the price.

[Jeff and Sarah]

I have no problem paying at or near the price for something if it is as described and my questions can be answered. When I ask questions about the item/boat/service and the answers are all "I don't know" I low ball because I know it's going to cost me a small fortune to get the boat repaired to a level anywhere near what is advertised as the actual condition. I'm also not willing to pay $15k for electronics that cost $15k 10 years ago. I told one seller that his valuation of his boat's electronics was way off and that I'll agree to that number if he removes them from the boat, keeps them, and drops the boat price by the same amount- his response was they weren't worth anything to him because he doesn't need them to which I replied they weren't worth anything to me because I was going to throw them away. He was a nice guy to be fair, but his lack of knowledge about his boat and his love of his 10 year old radar caused me to offer about 2/3 of his price. He declined and I found another boat. No harm, no foul. I don't think he ever sold the boat in the end. It was beautiful though- just too many unanswered questions for me.

[satu]

Negotiations are here to stay. To me, individual etiquitte is often what's missing. Everyone wants to think their getting a deal, so I bump my price up a bit and often add the words, "price reduced", so would-be buyers smell the blood of distress. I own a retail business, so expect an assortment of ill-behaved "wackos" to chime in.

Years ago, during a weak moment, I listed my CD27 on Craigslist. Someone sent me a rant detailing how Cape Dories were currently worthless. Therefore I should sell them mine for a fraction of my asking price. Despite no response, they kept sending me slightly revised rants, until I came to my senses and removed the ad. I found their style very offensive...Another potential buyer from this site sent me a long list critiquing my boat from the photos posted, without any apparent intent to ever take a closer look.

THough vulnerable to the disappointments, I appreciate the bittersweet economy of Craigslist and other free Internet listing services.