1977 CD27 Restoration

[Shinok]

Hey folks,

We just purchased a 1977 CD27 that is in dire need of some continued TLC. The last owner has spent several years working on her and repairing the substantial cosmetic (and some functional) damage one of the owners prior to him did. The short part of the story is that one owner installed rather shoddy custom cabinets in the boat that involved bolt holes through the deck and cabin, along with at least a hundred in various places inside. The last owner is a shipwright and has been working on her for years, doing a very good job of repairing the damage.

We bought her as our first sailboat, understanding the need for substantial amounts of work. The boat is structurally sound (no blisters, signs of damage, deck problems, etc), so provided she survives this week of high winds with my crappy dock line job, we will be continuing to restore her. We purchased her at a great price, with all this in mind.

So far we've installed an outboard mount (more on that later), installed the sails, replaced 3 of the 4 halyards (more on that later), installed a new electrical system (still somewhat in progress), stripped out 2 tons of old wiring (it took me 2 days), cleaned the freshwater tanks, reinstalled the sink/water pump/tubing, "fitted" a portajon, and bled/sweat/cursed in every crevice and hole she has. That's the short list.

Much remains. The boat is a 3 day trip from our home and we are currently trying to get her into traveling condition so we can safely sail her down to her new home and the spot where most of the restoration will continue. I have some questions/concerns/thoughts I've outlined below, any help is appreciated.

I will take photos next week and post them, I wanted to this time around but didn't have time.

Here are the issues/thoughts/etc:

1. Stuck jib halyard - We replaced the two main halyards with 7/16ths rope (it was rope<->wire) and the staysail halyard with 3/8ths. I went to replace the jib halyard, only to discover it wouldn't budge, on either end. Looking through binoculars, it appears the wire is off to one side. We are going to send someone up top this week, but ideas are much appreciated. It seems to me that the wire has jumped track, but my biggest concern is the sheave has busted or needs replacement. If that's the case, will the mast have to come down or can it be done from a chair? Any other advice on this situation?

2. Staysail - The boat is cutter rigged with a track of a staysail up front and the tracks on the cabin. Is this at all common in the CD27? I've never seen one that was rigged this way before, but the boat has a staysail and halyards setup for it. This seems like a rather odd configuration for this type of boat, any insight into operating the boat this way?

3. Outhaul - The boat has a wire outhaul with no car, the wire hooks directly into the clew and runs through the boom. The wire exits the boom above the companionway (about 1/2 the length of the boom) and goes into some sort of wire crank. This system has be a bit mystified, I can't find any information on this "crank", even the brand name reveals nothing. The "crank" consists of a plastic circle mounted on top of a metal gear, there is a small (3in) handle that can rotate several directions to pull in the outhaul or let it out. The brand says "Saylom England" on it. The entire device is less than an inch and a half thick and about 2-3in in diameter, so it's fairly small. The concern is that it jumps out here and there and it doesn't apply much tension to the clew of the sail, I'm concerned it's usable life is nearing an end and would like to replace it. Any suggestions?

4. Outboard motor mount - The sad part, for now anyway. The old Yanmar was a block of rust when the prior owner got it, so he removed it completely and fiberglassed over the prop shaft. The fiberglass can be cut out and the lack of an inboard doesn't bother me much, but we're not in a place to drop the investment on the inboard just yet, especially considering the boat can't be sailed. So, we took the sad (cosmetically, anyway) route and drilled the transom for a Fulton outboard mount. This will largely serve to get the boat to our hometown and will eventually be removed, filled, and painted over. In the meantime, I'm wondering if anyone has mounted an OB on a CD27 or boat with similar transom design before and what kind of problems they encountered? We'll be running a Tohatsu 6 HP Sail Pro that weighs about 60 lbs, the mount is rated for 110lbs and we reinforced it with a thick backing plate. I'm curious about the structural impact of having one mounted, in addition to how the boat operates with an OB mounted. I hated to do things this way, but it was the most practical thing for us.

5. Electric inboard - Wipe the tears from your eyes, the previous is just a temporary solution. We've been looking at using an electric inboard in place of the expense and hassle of diesel. I was wondering if anyone has any experiences with these, good or bad?

6. Sink seacock - The simpler of the questions, the current marelon seacock is stuck. I was thinking about installing one similar to what the factor shipped it with, only problem is, I don't know what it was. If we can't get it open (I don't think we will, but it's possible), and even if we do, I may want to replace it with a bronze model eventually, which I'm assuming is what it came with from the factory. Anyone have information on that?

7. Icebox - The icebox is a real mess. I swear someone put a live shark in there and filled it with water. After wiping out the mildew, what's left is portions of chipped white "paint" (?), some blue substance, a hole in the side, and some fiberglass cloth hanging out. It's a disaster. I have pictures, but I want high res ones to show the damage, so I'll wait until next weekend. That aside, it doesn't appear the icebox can be removed. I was thinking about trying to glass over it with a layer of new cloth, then re-gelcoat it, maybe trying to add some external insulation. Has anyone had to rebuild their icebox? Any success or advice?

8. Bow rail - The old bow rail is bent and in horrid shape, any suggestions on where to find a new one that will fit?

9. Anchor roller - I'd like to install an anchor roller, it seems the models Spartan sells are all for boats with bowsprits, has anyone installed one that's given them particularly good experiences?

10. Battery tray - The old battery tray is rotten to the core. It's in the starboard lazarette and I am going to build another one, can someone photograph theirs or give me some advice on what it should look like? Right now the battery is mounted in the engine well.

I think that's about it for now. The boat sounds much worse than it is, but she still needs a lot of work. The last owner has done a lot of good work to her and continues to help me get her ready to go south, I'm hoping to get closer to finishing the job.

Thanks for the help, pics next weekend! And probably a ton of other questions.

[Carl Thunberg]

First, welcome to the Board! You will find this is a community of Cape Dory enthusiasts that generously shares their knowledge, experience, and ideas.

That's quite a project you have on your hands, but it sounds like you're well aware of what you're getting yourself into. Each one of the items on your list is a topic in itself. You might find it more productive to post each of these questions as a separate topic on this Board. The topic of electric inboards comes up every so often, but more inquiries than actual experience. I don't recall anyone on this Board posting that they had actually installed one. I could be wrong, and often am. I know of one CD27 that had installed an outboard motor mount as a temporary measure. The 6 Hp Tohatsu is a great engine, but you may find it under-powered for a CD27.

As for replacing the sheave, I'd be concerned about attempting this from a bosun's chair. Full disclosure - I've never replaced a mast sheave. Wouldn't you need to slack the stays completely, and wouldn't that leave the mast unsupported and vulnerable in the fore and aft direction? Do the upper shrouds connect on the mast or at the masthead fitting (I'm not sure)? Those may need to be slacked too. Just thinking out loud here.

[bhartley]

I am not sure why I took a picture of the battery shelf on our 25D, but since I did, I will share! I believe it is the same configuration as the 27. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

The shelf was quite rotted and was rebuilt as original with the exception of taking the lip off the aft end to make room for 2 Group 27 batteries. The tie-downs had not been installed at this point.


The metal piece (mounted fore/aft on the side) is the support for a clever shelf installed by the previous owner of Pyxis. It makes the port side locker a lot more convenient.

[marka]

Boy,

Sounds like quite a list. The notion of rigging a CD 27 with two headsails is interesting. i would think it would screw up the helm balance but i'm not sure it would be any worse than a big genoa (which i don't have). Your assumption about the stuck jib halyard is probably correct. we un-step out mast each year so i've never done the work from up high.

The outhaul arrangement seems like unnecessary complexity. We have a small single block with a becket and a cleat on the boom so we get a 2:1 purchase. We set it once and never touch it all season.

the original seacock for the sink drain can be bought from spartan marine. it's their 3/4 in. model. you'll probably want to check all the seacocks and make sure they didn't replace with ball valves.

i can't lend any advice on the outboard.

good luck
mark

[Shinok]

Thanks for the advice folks. Over time, when we get to each of the items on the list, I'll post if I have further questions. I was mostly trying to get an overall feel for things.

Also, I meant to mention, the boat has 8 (?!) winches. There are two on the mast, two on either side of the companionway, and 4 in the cockpit. I'm not really sure why, the 4 in the cockpit all use the standard Cape Dory/Spartan mounts.

I also meant to ask, does anyone have a sail loft they recommend? I'm thinking about replacing the main.

Boy,

Sounds like quite a list. The notion of rigging a CD 27 with two headsails is interesting. i would think it would screw up the helm balance but i'm not sure it would be any worse than a big genoa (which i don't have). Your assumption about the stuck jib halyard is probably correct. we un-step out mast each year so i've never done the work from up high.

I agree, it seems like having two up will be too much to deal with. My understanding is the boat has the same mast as a 30, which is cutter rigged, so maybe the PO thought he would make use of it. There were some...odd...decisions made on the boat and it's rigging. The boat has a staysail and the equipment to raise it, but I don't think we'll mess with it. We may just use the staysail halyard as a backup for the jib or in the meantime until we can get up the mast to replace the jib halyard (the staysail halyard is about 12in lower than the masthead).

The outhaul arrangement seems like unnecessary complexity. We have a small single block with a becket and a cleat on the boom so we get a 2:1 purchase. We set it once and never touch it all season.

I would agree, it just has me curious. I've been thinking about replacing it with something similar to what you have. I haven't had a chance to look at the boom yet and see how we'd mount such a system though. Any idea what size your becket is? Do you run the line through the boom to a cleat further forward or on the outside?

the original seacock for the sink drain can be bought from spartan marine. it's their 3/4 in. model. you'll probably want to check all the seacocks and make sure they didn't replace with ball valves.

That's good to know, thanks! The other seacocks are all original, the only replaced one is for the sink.

First, welcome to the Board! You will find this is a community of Cape Dory enthusiasts that generously shares their knowledge, experience, and ideas.

That's quite a project you have on your hands, but it sounds like you're well aware of what you're getting yourself into. Each one of the items on your list is a topic in itself. You might find it more productive to post each of these questions as a separate topic on this Board. The topic of electric inboards comes up every so often, but more inquiries than actual experience. I don't recall anyone on this Board posting that they had actually installed one. I could be wrong, and often am. I know of one CD27 that had installed an outboard motor mount as a temporary measure. The 6 Hp Tohatsu is a great engine, but you may find it under-powered for a CD27.

As for replacing the sheave, I'd be concerned about attempting this from a bosun's chair. Full disclosure - I've never replaced a mast sheave. Wouldn't you need to slack the stays completely, and wouldn't that leave the mast unsupported and vulnerable in the fore and aft direction? Do the upper shrouds connect on the mast or at the masthead fitting (I'm not sure)? Those may need to be slacked too. Just thinking out loud here.

I'm glad to hear someone else has successfully mounted an outboard. We have a 3 day trip to return her home and the idea of operating the boat outside of it's design made me a little uneasy.

As for the sheave, it seems that will have to be done with the mast down. We may have to make do with the staysail halyard for now.

I am not sure why I took a picture of the battery shelf on our 25D, but since I did, I will share! I believe it is the same configuration as the 27. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks, that's helpful. I really like the shelf idea.

Our current box is rotten and rusted, we have the battery mounted in the engine compartment for now, which is working out really well for the time being. Having never seen a battery box myself, I wasn't sure what it would look like, so thanks for that.

[Duncan Maio]

Congratulations on your new boat!

The sink seacock is available from Spartan Marine - I bought one this spring. SPA-S636 for the seacock and SPA-T720 for the through-hull.

I have a Guthrie Roller sitting under my desk that I am sure I will never use (I made a bunch several years ago and sold most of them, and never got around to installing one on my boat). Let me know if you want this one.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepe5pk/site ... G_0100.JPG

The battery shelf in the CD27 is in the starboard locker, forward and outboard. It looks just like the 25D photos - simple plywood shelf.

[gates_cliff]

I'll add my congratulations on acquiring a CD 27. I love my boat and feel like she sails sweetly. But likek most of the others on here, I'm constantly thinking of what needs to be done.

I'm curious also about the cutter rig and the possibility it could be a CD 30 mast.

I don't have any real solutions to your problems. I just had much of the electrical system on my boat redone, it was such a mess I simply couldn't figure it out and didn't have the time to rip everything out and rewire it, so hired a local guy who did a great job. I'd recommend simplyfying the outhaul. Unless you're a serious racer, adjusting it isn't going to make a great deal of performance difference.

Where are you located?

8 winches? that's seems a bit of overkill to me.

Good Luck, and this board is an incredible resource of great people, reality checks, and even some humor!

[Shinok]

I'll add my congratulations on acquiring a CD 27. I love my boat and feel like she sails sweetly. But likek most of the others on here, I'm constantly thinking of what needs to be done.

I'm curious also about the cutter rig and the possibility it could be a CD 30 mast.

I don't have any real solutions to your problems. I just had much of the electrical system on my boat redone, it was such a mess I simply couldn't figure it out and didn't have the time to rip everything out and rewire it, so hired a local guy who did a great job. I'd recommend simplyfying the outhaul. Unless you're a serious racer, adjusting it isn't going to make a great deal of performance difference.

Thanks, we're excited about it, although there is still a lot to be done.

The electrical system was a nightmare. It took me about 2-3 days of pulling, cutting, swearing, and bleeding to get all the old wiring out. I can't stand having unused wires everywhere, I'm kindof OCD about that, so I spent the time to pull as much out as I could. A fair bit of it came out with relative ease, but the stuff that didn't would take hours to get out. There are still some wires that I'm convinced are taped and glued in place, but I got most of it out (3 or 4 large trashbags full).

Looking back, I should have paid someone to do it. At least I know how to wire it now She still needs interior lights wired up and some battery health stuff (voltmeter, solar panel, etc), but that'll come soon. I need to add another bus bar before I do that, the way it's wired right now is kindof messy since the bus bar is in the engine compartment and the panel is over the stove top, there are a lot of wires running from that cabinet to the engine compartment, more than I'd prefer. Once we clean that up, I'll start adding new stuff inside.

Where are you located?

The boat is in Jacksonville, FL until she's ready to sail, she's getting close and I'm hoping to sail her for the first time this weekend, we'll see though. We are located in Melbourne, where she will be once we can get her down here.

8 winches? that's seems a bit of overkill to me.

I'd agree, I can't really figure that part out. The only thing that I can think of is that one of the PO, whoever set it up this way, left the 2 winches mounted on the mast in place but ran the halyards to the cockpit and added the two winches on the cabin top for the halyards (there are blocks and guides for those lines too). I think he used the forward 2 winches for the staysail and the rear 2 for the jib. I've never sailed a cutter before, so I have no idea if that's the case or not.

The old labeling on the mast clearly has the cleats labeled for "staysail", "2nd main", etc, so someone had it set up or that. We also have the staysail in our closet.

That's the only thing I can think of. I'll take pictures this weekend, let you guys take a look.

[billc]

i acquired a cd25 in the melbourne area a year ago and have been sidetracked by illness from its restoration. there are alot of sailing resources and cd's in the melbourne area. my main advice is to avoid looking at the forest and take your project one tree at a time. my boat was sailable and we enjoyed it several times before i stuck on trailer and brought home. where it sits.

one of the most fun i have with a sailboat was i little oday javein with fin keel. was found swamped tied to a lake house dock. i did the minimal work (paint) and moored it near parents house in st augustine for couple years. (early 80's) could have used a referb of course but...

next most fun was a wooden meter class sloop with spruce mast. had settled on its keel it 8 feet of water at low tide. (mid 80's) we refloated, found the leak, caulfed and had drug to local shipyard and spent the next year becoming part of boatyard ville which led to many other adventures.

there have been more boats and stories along the way, the point for me is enjoy the journey and dont get lost in the "restoration", its a rabbit hole that has swallowed many wallets and marriages. but if you can fund go for. its amazing to think of the money spent on the restorations of "stormy monday" and the like.

if you can swing i recommend doing the work in a diy boatyard alot more synergy and you can easily hang a sign if things go south. theres a huge one south of jax in green cove springs.

good luck and many happy sanding pads. and keep in mind you could just buy a new replica of a marlin 23 for only 80,000 usd.

[Shinok]

We sailed the boat for the first time, it sailed awesome! Way better than the Hunter 23 we learned on

The 6 HP Tohatsu worked like a charm. I'm uneasy about having it hang off the transom, but I guess it'll have to do. We supported it with a backing plate and the Fulton mount seems to hold the weight alright (motor is 60lbs, max on mount is 110). Other than my being paranoid, the motor puttered right along. It was moving the boat at a decent speed with less than 10% throttle.

Here is the outhaul device I was talking about (there is a pic of the boat in the same album):

https://picasaweb.google.com/1147519397 ... 8371611794

Any ideas?

The mast end was replaced with one that doesn't have "holes" (tangs??) for the topping lift and outhaul. The wire device held up OK while we were sailing, but i'm not sure how long that's gonna be the case.

Our friendly neighbor went up the mast to look at that halyard. Apparently the wire halyard is corroded together with the sheave. We made do with the other forward halyard (exits mast about 11in below masthead) and it worked fine. When the mast comes down, we'll replace the sheaves.