CD25D survey detects weakness or delamination in cockpit sol

[JSS]

A survey of a 1982 CD25D I was hoping to buy has recommended fiberglass repair of the cockpit sole. Otherwise boat in good shape. some crazing on forward and side decks.

I asked a boatyard to examine the cockpit sole and after tapping around a bit was told that about 1/4 of sole (port forward quarter) sounded mushy. Their assessment was probable delamination and possible rot. Estimated cost to repair was $2000 to $3000 -- essentially cutting out and replacing the effected areas.

Is this a reasonalble assessment and estimate? Is it important to do this repair promptly or can it be put off for a couple of years? Is there a less expensive way of dealing with the problem? Does this indicate likely problems that would suggest not going through with the sale ?



joels@ids.net

[Dave Carter]

I had a similar experience with the cockpit sole of my CD27. The balsa core had become saturated. Most of the top fiberglass layer of the sole and underlying balsa core had to be removed. The bottom layer of glass in the sole remained in place and then the laminate structure was rebuilt. The cost was in the range you have been quoted. My fiberglass guy would only do the job on a time and materials basis since the extent of the work to be done could not be accurately estimated.

Our final assessment was that the core was shot/mushy, but that the structure was so strong anyway, the job probably could have been put off indefinitely.

Presumably your surveyor has detected the problem via a moisture meter. If the sole is not otherwise soft underfoot and your sailing plans are conservative, you might consider waiting on the job.

[Neil Gordon]

>>Presumably your surveyor has detected the problem via a moisture meter.<<

More likely by tapping around the deck to find voids where the delamination has taken place.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Daniel]

You could ask the owner for permission to have the surveyor drill a few exploratory holes from the inside into the lower cockpit floor and take a few samples of the balsa core. If its wet and saturated then I would concur that a full job may be necessary (i.e., remove the old rotten balsa core and re-laminate). If the core isn't saturated you may be able to get away with the procedure West System describes in their repair manual of drilling a bunch of holes into the core and filling it with epoxy. I would think it depends on the extent of the delamination (localized vs. entire cockpit floor). Probably best to be conservative here as it is a high use area if in doubt.

[Scott Ritchey]

I would be very careful about delamination in the main deck. The cockpit sole presents a more manageble problem because the problem is won't spread unless you have leaks elsewhere (I think the well sides are solid glass).

If the cockpit sole is not spongy and the rest of the boat is in great shape, you may want to use this problem to negotiate a much lower price and fix it at your leisure. The leak is likely coming from cracks where the sole meets the vertical cockpit well sides or from the scupper drains. You might try Captain Trolly's to stop the leaks. It's cheap and works its way into cracks to seal them. Not a structural repair but it may seal leaks. Make sure you have good ventilation for the cabin. If the rotted/delaminated area is small, maybe you can dry it out by drilling through the bottom (from engine compartment) into the core to drain water and let it dry out. If it isn't plup, there are some epoxy fillers (like Git Rot) that may do the job. Even if it's pulp, a small area can be gouged out until you reach dry solid core, and filled with a filler, like epoxy and microbaloons.

The traditional fixes are hard and involving removing the top or bottom skin and replacing the core. Then build a new skin. Hard to do neatly from the top and hard to do from the bottom, period. If the core is totally rotted, you can cut it around the periphery (using a grinding wheel) and remove it intact ... but it doesn't sound like your situation. There may be other postings on this site describing this work.

No one can say for certain without examining your boat. But if the problem is minor, get a really good price and fix it yourself when you have time. And try to limit damage until then. If the problem is major (especially if in the main deck) keep shopping.

Good Luck
Scott Ritchey CD27 #153

A survey of a 1982 CD25D I was hoping to buy has recommended fiberglass repair of the cockpit sole. Otherwise boat in good shape. some crazing on forward and side decks.

I asked a boatyard to examine the cockpit sole and after tapping around a bit was told that about 1/4 of sole (port forward quarter) sounded mushy. Their assessment was probable delamination and possible rot. Estimated cost to repair was $2000 to $3000 -- essentially cutting out and replacing the effected areas.

Is this a reasonalble assessment and estimate? Is it important to do this repair promptly or can it be put off for a couple of years? Is there a less expensive way of dealing with the problem? Does this indicate likely problems that would suggest not going through with the sale ?

RitcheyVS@aol.com

[Bill Bloxham]

I had the same problem with my Ty cockpit sole. The drill and inject method most likely will not work - plan on removing the old core and putting in some new Baltek.
A teak cockpit grating is cool looking and much cheaper then repainting - try the West Marine teak grating parts screwed togther with silicon bronze screws (Jamestown Distributers - 800-423-0030; get the catalog). I would not epoxy such a high stress object.

Is this boat the NC area boat that was posted about a few days ago with the oilcaning hull?
Good luck.
Bill



mmmmmmbill@aol.com

[Bert Felton]

What was the name of the Cape Dory 25D? I am considering buying one, and I do not want to run into the exact one you surveyed? Where is it located?

Thanks,
Bert Felton
Mont15@aol



Mont15@aol.com

[Brian]

We have a CD 28 that had this problem. We have dri-deck gratings in the cockpit to keep dirt from getting into the cabin. When I picked it up to clean this spring, I noticed that I could push down on the sole of the cockpit. A screw was missing from a hole that secured the waste pumpout fitting to the deck. Water entered here (I think). I drilled a hole and water squirted up at me. I knew then that we had a problem. The entire cockpit was saturated. Fortunately the cockpit is self contained so that there was no damage elsewhere. After much consideration we decided to have a permanent repair made. The boatyard cut around the perimeter of the cockpit, from the top, leaving a couple of inches. They then dug out all the coring and put in marine plywood saturated with epoxy. THen some filler and one layer of glass. They then rolled some epoxy on with a textured brush that made the best non skid I have ever seen. After one coat of primer and one coat of Easypoxy Grand Banks Beige it looks great. Total cost $876. ($675 labor @$50hr/$64 for plywood/$60 for a gal. of epoxy/misc. fillers, grinding discs, etc.) email me if you want more info.



BSinskie@aol.com

[Larry DeMers]

Seems this is a fairly common problem in Cape Dory's. We also replaced our cockpit due to rotting of the balsa. It was a leak in the Edson Wheel Binnacle that did the job..it was not sealed to the fiberglass, and so allowed water intrusion for 10 years or more it appears.
We had the cockpit top cut off, the old blasa sucked out (it was black goop totally), and new marine ply core inserted with foam edges to soften the trnasition from old to new etc. They matched the gel coat pretty well, and the repair was acceptable..cost? $3k. Do it again? Yeah, but I would do it myself and save $2500.

Larry DeMers

A survey of a 1982 CD25D I was hoping to buy has recommended fiberglass repair of the cockpit sole. Otherwise boat in good shape. some crazing on forward and side decks.

I asked a boatyard to examine the cockpit sole and after tapping around a bit was told that about 1/4 of sole (port forward quarter) sounded mushy. Their assessment was probable delamination and possible rot. Estimated cost to repair was $2000 to $3000 -- essentially cutting out and replacing the effected areas.

Is this a reasonalble assessment and estimate? Is it important to do this repair promptly or can it be put off for a couple of years? Is there a less expensive way of dealing with the problem? Does this indicate likely problems that would suggest not going through with the sale ?

demers@sgi.com