The mystery of water in the engine pan

[Sea Hunt Video]

I hope this post does not "jinx" my efforts.

Yesterday I spent some time aboard S/V Bali Ha'i. In checking the bilge and engine sump I found some water in the bilge - maybe about a quart. It had rained over the mooring field a few days earlier.

I started to again go over possible sources of water ingress. Previously, I had found a small 1/2" hole at the forward end of the port side cockpit locker near the bottom of the locker. When I found this hole some time ago I thought it drained into the engine sump and was the source of rain water getting into the engine sump - entering via the cockpit locker hatch, down into the port side cockpit locker and draining through this hole into the sump.

Yesterday I started to think that this hole may actually gravity drain into the bilge. I ran a wire through the hole to see where it came out. Sure enough, it came out at a section of the engine mount that slopes down into the bilge. Eureka

Coincidentally, I had a 5 gallon bucket in this locker that was positioned right below the hatch cover and against the removable board that allows access to the engine from the port side cockpit locker. It had at least 2" of water in the bucket. Clearly, somehow, water is getting over the 3" teak rails inside the port side cockpit locker and draining into the locker.

I decided to put everything back in the locker exactly where I usually store items. I closed the lid and used duct tape to seal the entire locker cover so that it will be impossible (I hope) for any rain water to enter the port side cockpit locker. Later this week we are expecting some heavy rains from a low pressure system/wave that is moving towards South Florida. After it passes, if there is no water in the bilge I believe I will have found the source of bilge water. Then, I will have to figure out how to seal off the locker lid so that it will not allow water in to the locker and gravity drain into the bilge.

If this works, I will have found a safe place to store my secret stash of Guinness

Fingers crossed.

[Noel Heslop]

Hi Robert,

Yes, IMHO you are on the correct path.

I also have water seepage in my port locker, below the 3 inches of teak. If I open locker cover, and feel under the teak, along the top underside of the locker, I have a wetness. I am also concerned that rainwater lays in the rear of port locker cover in a slight depression, and then slowly seeps through the now aged and not securely sealed teak. Hopefully Robert you do not have this problem, but yours does seem similar.

Breezy's PO has used silastic to attempt a quick fix, by using a silicon bead at the bottom join, in the very tight finger width section, which possibly worked initially, but we all know what happens to quick fixes. I have also been made aware that silicon on a boat do not mix. Sikaflex is the only product used at my local marina.

I had thought about my quick fix, of tilting Breezy to the port side, and using a waterproof filler, to seal at depth in the crevice.

Then, a knowledgeable sailing rello straightened me out, and said very clearly, "you know what the correct fix is" and yes, that is remove teak, and rebed with sikaflex.

I am reluctant as I always take forever doing my repair jobs from lack of experience, which means no sailing. I do have 2 covers which cover Breezy fully on her swing mooring, so I have no water ingress normally. To be continued....

Robert, please let us all know how you go as you have more experience than I from your past posts?

[Joe Myerson]

Robert and Noel,

Yes, fellow 25D owners, it's that port cockpit locker that seems to be the primary source of rainwater leakage into the bilge. Like you, I find plenty of signs of water intrusion around that teak.

I have not really tried to tackle the problem yet. Maybe because I spent my youth sailing in wooden boats, I'm not that bothered by water in the bilge. But it can be a problem--so I'll follow this thread carefully.

--Joe

[jneely]

If you think water is getting under the rudder post column it is imperative that you remove the collar to inspect the cockpit sole. Water coming in there may end up in the engine pan, but more importantly it will cause the cored sole to rot. That happened on our CD 27 Troika and last fall I had to have the entire cockpit sole replaced. I had the work done by Chuck's Fiberglass in Cutchogue, L.I. They did an amazing job. It looks like new and is probably stronger than the original. However, it was an expense I could have done without. Perhaps if you have any rot and you discover it early you will be able to get by with a partial replacement and save some dough.

Also, don't be surprised if your water problem is coming from more than one leak. One place to also check is the joint between the teak at the stern and the top of the transom.

With all the problems we sometimes encounter with our Cape Dory boats we are still fortunate to own such wonderful vessels.

[Paul D.]

Sea Hunt,

I fear you may know this already but beware of leaving the duct tape on for long or you will have a messy clean up job. Blue 3M or electric tape may be better underneath the wider duct tape if it is on for any amount of time.

I still look at some tape residue on the aft deck from 2002 when I transported the boat. I did everything right except that. Someday I will get denatured alcohol up there ( I have every other form of nasty solvent) and clean it up and good. But I have sailed so little this summer I will not do it now! Priorities.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Hello Paul:

Thanks very much. That is good advise. I used duct tape because I wanted to make sure I got a good leak proof seal. I thought about using blue painter's tape but decided it might not stand up to a heavy rain, etc. without allowing "seepage".

A couple of years ago someone on this board (I think it was Russell but apologize if it was someone else) recommended using WD40 to remove duct tape residue/glue. It worked great on another little project I did back then. Also, I think isopropyl alcohol works well on any glue type stuff.

Today, we had some real "gully washers" here at the house and at the sailing club that lasted several hours. Tomorrow looks to be a "rain day" as well. I am hoping to get to the club Monday to see how much, if any, is water in the bilge and/or engine sump area.

JNeely:

If the cockpit locker is not the source of the bilge/engine sump water my next "suspect" will be the rudder post column. If it is that area, I may end up replacing the entire cockpit sole as you did. When I took over care and custody of S/V Bali Ha'i she had a soft spot in the cockpit that is about 18"x12". I have been delaying this project until I solve the bilge/engine sump water ingress "issue". But I have recognized that this may well be the cause. Time will tell.

Thanks to everyone for your advise, suggestions, recommendations, encouragement, etc. For reasons not here relevant they are each sincerely and truly appreciated more than you will ever know. As someone recently posted on this board, this is an amazing collection of sailors and friends.

[Sea Hunt Video]

As amazing as it may seem, I think I may have found the primary cause of water entering the bilge and the engine sump.

Noel, Joe, Dick, JNeely, Paul, Trapper and all:

Friday and Saturday we had torrential rains in South Florida for several hours, including our mooring field. This afternoon I checked on my "taping" efforts. There was very little water in the bilge area - less than 1/2 cup. This is substantially less than what I have seen in the past and is, frankly, almost ignorable (is that a word ). You would have to use a small sponge to soak it up. The engine sump had no real water at all and was only a little "damp" to the touch.

I think Joe and Noel (and others) are correct that most of the water is entering via the port side cockpit locker. I had thought that the water was somehow going "up and over" the 3" teak rail that goes around the locker. It seemed almost impossible that the water could "climb" 3". Joe and Noel have suggested that the water is dripping "down" between the bottom edge of the 3" teak rail and the fiberglass to which it is attached. I will inspect this more carefully tomorrow. I was going to do it today but we had more rain move in over the mooring field late today.

I think others may well be correct that some water is also entering via the tiller post and the teak plate. I plan to seal this with BoatLife and also use Boatlife to somehow seal around the underside of the 3" teak rail in the port side cockpit locker.

I left the duct tape on the locker cover, etc. because we expect more rains tonight and possibly tomorrow. I want to continue the "experiment" until I am able to permanently (or temporarily ) seal offer the cockpit locker.

Then, on to the next project. Repairing the automatic Rule 750 bilge pump. Not sure if it is the pump motor that is bad or the wiring is bad. Yea Another project.

[rtbates]

Robert:

It's either the hinge bolts or the screws holding the 3" rail from the bottom. NO WAY can water enter that channel and go up 3" UNLESS you have a damn in the outlet path...Or rain of a Biblical nature...

I had same problem starboard side....It was the hinge bolts leaking

Pour a bucket of water on top of the locker AFTER you get an assistant to get into the locker with a flashlight!!

[Sea Hunt Video]

Randy and all:

The past few days should be a real test of whether I have located the source of water ingress into the bilge (and possibly engine sump). I think it is the bottom of the 3" teak rail as you, Joe, Noel and others have suggested. I will get some BoatLife caulk and try to seal the area underneath the cockipt seat where the 3" teak rail is attached. Time will tell.

Unofficial estimates suggest we had 8"-10" of rain in the area of the mooring field. This is a major amount of water. I went to the club today intending to board S/V Bali Ha'i and check on her condition following TS Isaac. Unfortunately, even this morning, we continued to have 30-35 kts winds. No launch service available.

I did look at S/V Bali Ha'i from afar (with binoculars). She seems to be riding to her mooring OK and does not appear to be down in the water too much.

Hopefully tomorrow conditions will permit an inspection.