Reguarding Foss Foam, it seems they are the OEM for Hunter, it should be noted that hunters are notorious for their rudders falling off. Though hunter uses aluminium shafts, not SS, which is the primary issue, so other Foss Foam rudders using SS are probably fine. But its something that came to mind when browsing their site. I know little about the idea of using foam in a rudder, perhaps they are terrific rudders. Personally I would probably go the Robinhood Marine route if I had to get a new rudder, but since they still make the 36 that is probably not a big deal for them, where as the 33 would be a totally custom job.
Real shame about your issue, I can imagine you are seriously bummed, I have no idea what kind of cost quotes you are getting, but i cannot imagine they are cheap.
Cost of rudder repair
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Hi Russell,
I have called Robinhood but haven't heard back from them just yet. I also contacted Nauset Marine who apparently had the tooling for the CD 33 after Cape Dory. They said that the tooling for these was destroyed some time ago due to their poor condition, and said that drawings and other info had disappeared after the auction before they could get our hands on them.
Foss Foam have quoted me $1,200 for building a new mold plus $1,600 for the rudder. I guess the good news for any other CD33 owners is that if I do get this made by them, they will have the mold for the CD33 and should only charge $1,600 for a new replacement. I will have to ask Foss about this and confirm that it includes a SS post.
I am making some other inquiries, but the fact that my apartment lease is ending July 31st, and that I am going back to Ireland for 2 weeks tomorrow for a long-planned trip is not helping. Foss do /seem/ to have a quick turnaround time.
All the best,
Evan
I have called Robinhood but haven't heard back from them just yet. I also contacted Nauset Marine who apparently had the tooling for the CD 33 after Cape Dory. They said that the tooling for these was destroyed some time ago due to their poor condition, and said that drawings and other info had disappeared after the auction before they could get our hands on them.
Foss Foam have quoted me $1,200 for building a new mold plus $1,600 for the rudder. I guess the good news for any other CD33 owners is that if I do get this made by them, they will have the mold for the CD33 and should only charge $1,600 for a new replacement. I will have to ask Foss about this and confirm that it includes a SS post.
I am making some other inquiries, but the fact that my apartment lease is ending July 31st, and that I am going back to Ireland for 2 weeks tomorrow for a long-planned trip is not helping. Foss do /seem/ to have a quick turnaround time.
All the best,
Evan
I spoke to Robinhood, they have no tooling or specs for the CD33 rudder.
He suggested an option is to split the rudder in half, replace the post and put it back together. They are a long way from me and I don't think I can go too far with the post in such bad shape, so I don't think they're a great option for me.
I am getting a quote from my yard's fiberglass guy, and will see how that looks. Otherwise getting the brand new one from Foss seems like it might make sense.
Thanks for all the input,
Evan
He suggested an option is to split the rudder in half, replace the post and put it back together. They are a long way from me and I don't think I can go too far with the post in such bad shape, so I don't think they're a great option for me.
I am getting a quote from my yard's fiberglass guy, and will see how that looks. Otherwise getting the brand new one from Foss seems like it might make sense.
Thanks for all the input,
Evan
That is a surprisingly reasonable quote from Foss Foam, their materials cost due to bulk purchasing must be very low. You certainly wont get a price anywhere near that low having someone else custom build you a rudder or replace the shaft in the existing rudder.
Russell
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
s/v (yet to be named) Tayana 42CC
s/v Lady Pauline Cape Dory 36 #117 (for sale)
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mike ritenour
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Jun 19th, '07, 12:47
- Location: " Lavida" - CD33 /"Dorothy" - Open Cockpit Typhoon
- Contact:
Has anyone actually replaced the 33 rudder?
I need to source a New 33 rudder ASAP.
Thanks in advance.
Rit
Thanks in advance.
Rit
Re: Cost of rudder repair
I got mine from Foss Foam in the end.
It's been great. Put almost 2,000 miles on it. No problems at all. They have the mold for the 33 rudder now.
It's been great. Put almost 2,000 miles on it. No problems at all. They have the mold for the 33 rudder now.
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mike ritenour
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Jun 19th, '07, 12:47
- Location: " Lavida" - CD33 /"Dorothy" - Open Cockpit Typhoon
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Re: Cost of rudder repair
Thanks Evan.
How long did it take them to make it?
Thanks in advance.
Rit
How long did it take them to make it?
Thanks in advance.
Rit
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Hi Rit,
Think it took two weeks, and that included making the mold which they won't have to do again.
Evan
Think it took two weeks, and that included making the mold which they won't have to do again.
Evan
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mike ritenour
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Jun 19th, '07, 12:47
- Location: " Lavida" - CD33 /"Dorothy" - Open Cockpit Typhoon
- Contact:
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Morning Evan,
Did you have to fund the mold costs? Bummer.
A few questions if I may ask......
Did Foss use the Spartan male shoe fitting or did they fab something on their own?
How was the machine keyway on the post?
Besides the rudder, what else did you have to replace?
Since you've had the rudder, have you noticed any differences in handling and/or rudder response?
I was suprised by the heat sensitive foam inside the rudder. They have said to keep it as light as possible (we use Trinidad Black for our bottom) or cover it up when hauled out. Had no idea high density foam was so temperature critical.
Spoke to Al at Foss Foam this morning and if the yard will move fast, and they are, and I can make a decision by Tues, I should have it the following week. For about 2000.00 includes shipping. That stacks up against the yard having to dry out my existing rudder, taking two to four weeks, then making the rebuild.
Being in the middle of an 8 to 10 week cruise, time is of an essence!
Many thanks for your assistance.
rit
Did you have to fund the mold costs? Bummer.
A few questions if I may ask......
Did Foss use the Spartan male shoe fitting or did they fab something on their own?
How was the machine keyway on the post?
Besides the rudder, what else did you have to replace?
Since you've had the rudder, have you noticed any differences in handling and/or rudder response?
I was suprised by the heat sensitive foam inside the rudder. They have said to keep it as light as possible (we use Trinidad Black for our bottom) or cover it up when hauled out. Had no idea high density foam was so temperature critical.
Spoke to Al at Foss Foam this morning and if the yard will move fast, and they are, and I can make a decision by Tues, I should have it the following week. For about 2000.00 includes shipping. That stacks up against the yard having to dry out my existing rudder, taking two to four weeks, then making the rebuild.
Being in the middle of an 8 to 10 week cruise, time is of an essence!
Many thanks for your assistance.
rit
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Hi...
> Did Foss use the Spartan male shoe fitting or did they fab something on their own?
I honestly don't recall very well, I think Foss made a new shoe.
> How was the machine keyway on the post?
Everything looked good when I inspected it/had my yard look at it.
> Besides the rudder, what else did you have to replace?
Just the shoe.
> Since you've had the rudder, have you noticed any differences in handling and/or rudder response?
Don't think so. As always, easy to keep her straight with just the right amount of weather helm when sailing. Sometimes I feel like it feels more responsive and lighter to the touch. But I think that may just be a psychosomatic because I know it's brand new, haha.
> I was suprised by the heat sensitive foam inside the rudder. They have said to keep it as light as possible (we use Trinidad Black for our bottom) or cover it up when hauled out. Had no idea high density foam was so temperature critical.
That worried me too, but from what I've heard they are over-compensating in their warnings about that. I had it initially painted in shark grey, but then when getting the bottom done in a yard in Florida they inadvertently went over that with the deep burgundy as on the rest of the hull. I haven't noticed any difference at all in the rudder.
> Spoke to Al at Foss Foam this morning and if the yard will move fast, and they are, and I can make a decision by Tues, I should have it the following week. For about 2000.00 includes shipping. That stacks up against the yard having to dry out my existing rudder, taking two to four weeks, then making the rebuild.
That's nice and quick alright. I do recall they turned over mine quickly too.
> Being in the middle of an 8 to 10 week cruise, time is of an essence!
I know how you feel. I was just getting ready for a sabbatical, and that's how it started - hauling out and discovering that my rudder post looked like swiss cheese!
> Many thanks for your assistance.
My pleasure. I hope it all works out for you. I've certainly not had any problem with it.
> Did Foss use the Spartan male shoe fitting or did they fab something on their own?
I honestly don't recall very well, I think Foss made a new shoe.
> How was the machine keyway on the post?
Everything looked good when I inspected it/had my yard look at it.
> Besides the rudder, what else did you have to replace?
Just the shoe.
> Since you've had the rudder, have you noticed any differences in handling and/or rudder response?
Don't think so. As always, easy to keep her straight with just the right amount of weather helm when sailing. Sometimes I feel like it feels more responsive and lighter to the touch. But I think that may just be a psychosomatic because I know it's brand new, haha.
> I was suprised by the heat sensitive foam inside the rudder. They have said to keep it as light as possible (we use Trinidad Black for our bottom) or cover it up when hauled out. Had no idea high density foam was so temperature critical.
That worried me too, but from what I've heard they are over-compensating in their warnings about that. I had it initially painted in shark grey, but then when getting the bottom done in a yard in Florida they inadvertently went over that with the deep burgundy as on the rest of the hull. I haven't noticed any difference at all in the rudder.
> Spoke to Al at Foss Foam this morning and if the yard will move fast, and they are, and I can make a decision by Tues, I should have it the following week. For about 2000.00 includes shipping. That stacks up against the yard having to dry out my existing rudder, taking two to four weeks, then making the rebuild.
That's nice and quick alright. I do recall they turned over mine quickly too.
> Being in the middle of an 8 to 10 week cruise, time is of an essence!
I know how you feel. I was just getting ready for a sabbatical, and that's how it started - hauling out and discovering that my rudder post looked like swiss cheese!
> Many thanks for your assistance.
My pleasure. I hope it all works out for you. I've certainly not had any problem with it.
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Like OJ, if this were my boat, i would not hesitate to take on this job myself. I would get a steel fab shop to weld up the new post from properly dimensioned stock and weld on the necessary tabs. I would then decide on either a plywood approach as John has identified or a foam/epoxy build up. it's amazing what you can do with epoxy, fiberglass cloth, a five-inch angled grinder and some sand paper.
The hardest part of the job maybe taking the rudder off which will require you to grind through the fiberglass at the after end of the keel bottom to get to the the bronze fitting that holds the lower rudder pin. You will then have to grind off the heads on the 3/8 bronze pins that hold this fitting to the boat. after you drive these pins out, the rest is gravy.
The hardest part of the job maybe taking the rudder off which will require you to grind through the fiberglass at the after end of the keel bottom to get to the the bronze fitting that holds the lower rudder pin. You will then have to grind off the heads on the 3/8 bronze pins that hold this fitting to the boat. after you drive these pins out, the rest is gravy.
Mark Abramski
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mike ritenour
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Jun 19th, '07, 12:47
- Location: " Lavida" - CD33 /"Dorothy" - Open Cockpit Typhoon
- Contact:
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Thanks Mark, I've seen OJ's work first hand. His methods and your suggestions were my first thoughts.
However, LaVida is on the hard, in a distant port and in a yard that does not allow you to do your own work.
In her current state, I could not safely take the boat to sea without the rudder being right.
So my ownly option is either have the yard rebuild it or buy one.
sea u,
rit
However, LaVida is on the hard, in a distant port and in a yard that does not allow you to do your own work.
In her current state, I could not safely take the boat to sea without the rudder being right.
So my ownly option is either have the yard rebuild it or buy one.
sea u,
rit
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tartansailor
- Posts: 1523
- Joined: Aug 30th, '05, 13:55
- Location: CD25, Renaissance, Milton, DE
Re: Cost of rudder repair
I think that we're making much a-do about nothing.
It's a simple job.
I pulled my rudder and used it as a template for the new; only I substituted solid 3/16ths SS for the pins.
The entire rudder is SS.
Then epoxy foam, flair, then cover with fiberglass.
The critical skill is welding the plate to the shaft without warping.
All you need is a GOOD! welder.
dick
It's a simple job.
I pulled my rudder and used it as a template for the new; only I substituted solid 3/16ths SS for the pins.
The entire rudder is SS.
Then epoxy foam, flair, then cover with fiberglass.
The critical skill is welding the plate to the shaft without warping.
All you need is a GOOD! welder.
dick
Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
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NateHanson
- Posts: 116
- Joined: May 10th, '12, 07:02
- Location: CD 22 "Real Quiet Echo" Ellsworth, ME
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Foss foam fabricated a replacement rudder for our last boat, a Columbia 26. They were very fast and easy to work with. The price was $900 (plus shipping, I believe). They had the mold already, and this was for a spade rudder.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Re: Cost of rudder repair
Rit -
What was the issue with your rudder? Also pitting or crevis corrosion?
Just asking as another 33/330 owner keeping an eye on this issue.
As for my boat, I've noted the most minor lack of smoothness in the top section of the rudder post. I also noted, when I was fighting with the shaft key in order to change the packing on the rudder gland, that the post (the entire rudder) has some upward play. I imagine that i a non issue (normal condition) since it is limited and it sits in the shoe, but I will check the extent of the play when I next haul out.
Matt
What was the issue with your rudder? Also pitting or crevis corrosion?
Just asking as another 33/330 owner keeping an eye on this issue.
As for my boat, I've noted the most minor lack of smoothness in the top section of the rudder post. I also noted, when I was fighting with the shaft key in order to change the packing on the rudder gland, that the post (the entire rudder) has some upward play. I imagine that i a non issue (normal condition) since it is limited and it sits in the shoe, but I will check the extent of the play when I next haul out.
Matt