Extreme weather helm on Typhoon Weekender

[tom ricks]

Hi,
I am learning to sail my 1974 Typhoon, which is new to me.

I've been sailing in some fairly stiff wind in Penobscot Bay, Maine, and have encountered severe weather helm. I I'm told that my sail may be too big for the boat. (It doesn't have reef points in it, so hard to test this.) But I also suspect that:

--the mast may be raked a bit too much

--the lower shrouds may be loose

--the mainsail may be too old (I think it is the original or close to it)

Any suggestions on how I proceed to sort this out? Is there anything else I should be trying to decrease the weather helm?

Thanks,
Tom

[grajmahal]

Tom:

You need to power up your jib - make sure it is drawing properly, top and bottom. If you have the back engine (main) running full tilt, and the front engine (jib) at half throttle, you are gonna go in circles.

Is she sitting on her lines? If there is too much weight to forward, that will worsen the problem. Take your anchor, outboard, and chain out of the bow.

Good luck!!

John

[svreleaseme]

Tom,
A few things, First, If your main was a Ty original it probably would have one reef point. So maybe this is a sail off of another boat. But if the luff and the foot fit, assuming it is not blown out too much, it should work "ok". Oh By the way. Your TY may have the old boom roller reefing system in which you grab the boom pull it away from the mast, disengaging a spring loaded goose neck fitting and simply roll the boom and sail to the desired reef point. I almost forgot about that. But you do need to be able to reef in anything above 16, 17 kts. If you were sailing in anything above that with a full main you will be over powered. If you are using the working jib, which is the smallest head sail, then you would have a lot of weather helm as well with a full main. As far as the standing rigging goes, I would start with just getting the rig as straight as i can. Not too tight. On a hard beat to windward you want the leeward shrouds to be just a little loose looking. (Just a tiny bit.). And you want your forestay to have about 4 to 5 inched of give midway up the shroud. I hope this helps some.
Randy

[NateHanson]

Depowering the main, as others have pointed out, will decrease weatherhelm. Raise the halyard hard to flatten the luff. Pull the outhaul tight to flatten the foot. Drop the traveller to the leeward rail, and make sure you've got the jib sheeted in far enough to have telltales on both sides flying.

Nate

[Jeff and Sarah]

It doesn't take much change in mast rake to make a big difference. Try loosening your back stay a couple turns and tightening your forestay about the same. If you mark it first it will be easy to bring them back to your current settings if needed but I suspect this simple adjustment will help solve your problem.

[tom ricks]

I hope so. I will go out and try this working on the stays.

The weather helm was so great that I let the mainsheet go loose and just sailed on the jib. But even when the helm hard over I was still unable to turn away from the wind.

Thanks,
Tom

[Klem]

Tom,

There are a number of ty's on Penobscot Bay and if you could get any other owner to go out sailing with you, that might provide a lot of insight.

Weather helm is caused by a combination of things. The dominant factor is typically that as your boat heels over, the location of the driving force moves to leeward more than the location of the center of drag. Since these are no longer in line, you get a moment or torque that turns you up into the wind. Another large factor is that most designers build in some amount of weather helm as it is preferable to lee helm and this will get more pronounced, the windier it is. Hull shape is also a factor as this changes as the boat heels over.

The first thing to check when you have severe weather helm is the sail plan. Is the correct amount of sail up? Being overpowered will result in weather helm. Is the sailplan balanced? Having just the main up will result in a lot of weather helm. Are the sails properly trimmed? If you are trying to depower by bagging out a sail, you will have weather helm, you need to flatten them when it gets windy.

The next thing that I would look at would be how the boat is set up. Is the mast rake correct? How is the boat sitting on her lines both side to side and fore and aft?

Finally, there is how you are sailing the boat. Where is your weight? With weather helm, you should try to flatten the boat (sit on the high side) and move weight aft to move the center of lateral resistance and center of effort. Trimming makes a huge difference. Steering also makes a big difference. You mentioned having the helm hard over, what does that mean? If you have it over enough, the rudder will be stalled and will not actually work as well as less rudder angle would. Also, in my experience many people who are just beginning with a boat will not power the boat up so it will be moving through the water very slowly for the windspeed making the rudder very ineffective.

Good luck.

[Stan W.]

The weather helm was so great that I let the mainsheet go loose and just sailed on the jib. But even when the helm hard over I was still unable to turn away from the wind.

That is very strange and makes me wonder whether there might be something wrong with your rudder.

[starboard]

So, how much rake shroud tension do you need in the lite stuff 5-10kts...