Cockpit lock lid rattle and shake

[cguthrie]

Okay, here is a topic that is crucial to our mental survival as sailors:

Whenever we are motoring in our CD 27, the left and right locker lids in the cockpit rattle loudly, especially when at about half throttle. We have learned to stand or sit on top of them when that happens, but that doesn't work when I'm single handing or when someone has to go forward. It isn't easy to stand on both right and left at the same time, steer, and avoid the boom (although I've tried). Maybe if we had custom cockpit cushions they would help, but alas I can't afford them.

I bought some small rubber self-adhesive circular bumpers from a home store but they didn't stay on long and were too thick anyway. I thought about some kind of foam tape or even sail tape, but I wonder about longevity and appearance.

I doubt it is an issue of the motor mounts, since it has always been an issue both with the Westerbeke 13 and with the Yamaha 8 that I've had aboard (with new mounts), and it seems hard to believe that it is an uncommon issue. So how have others solved this?

[Warren Kaplan]

I had the exact same problem. I fixed it by getting a piece of styrofoam molded packaging which I keep on board. I take a pocket knife and I cut a small rectangular piece out and as I close the latch on the shaky locker I wedge it between the "round" part of the latch and where it fits into. The styrofoam compresses and causes the latch to close tightly. After you do it try and wiggle the latch. If placed right the latch won't budge. Of course when you open the latch the styrofoam falls out but all you have to do is pick it up and put it back when you close up again. When the foam "wears out" just cut another piece from what you brought aboard. I haven't had a rattlein years with the old tooth filling rattler YSM8 running.

[Andy Denmark]

This may be incorrect but I believe some past postings on this board addressed the issue of rattling hasps. This seems to be an ongoing issue with Rhiannon and I use the method Warren just mentioned of putting some sort of compressible material under the hasp. Rhiannon's hasps didn't make a sound until the springs broke. I wonder if Spartan will replace these springs at some reasonable cost? If so, perhaps that's an answer.

FWIW

[cguthrie]

Interestingly it isn't really the hasps that are rattling most noisily, but the lid itself on its seat. Of course the hasps rattle as well but less loudly.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Cliff:

I had the same problem on S/V Bali Ha'i. The starboard cockpit hatch cover would rattle when under power. I tried tightening the hasps, hinges, etc. No luck. I concluded it had to be the hatch cover rattling against the hatch opening frame.

I installed a thin strip of insulation foam along the bottom of the hatch opening (not on the hatch cover itself ) where the edge of the hatch cover comes to rest. I think I did about 6"-8" on each side of the little indentation in the hatch opening for the hasp. It eliminated the noise. It is not elegant but it worked.

You can buy the insulation foam at any hardware store. They come in different colors, widths, etc. I think I bought mine at Ace Hardware.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/Produc ... ?SKU=50561

I should add that this idea came to me whilst pondering the mystery of the rattle whilst enjoying 2-3 Guinness.

[hilbert]

The hatch should evenly compress a seal along the entire lip. However, I found the space to be uneven. The gap on the edge along the hinge was ~ 3/8", but ~ 5/8" on the other side. I built up the required seal with neoprene rubber.

[cguthrie]

The hatch should evenly compress a seal along the entire lip. However, I found the space to be uneven. The gap on the edge along the hinge was ~ 3/8", but ~ 5/8" on the other side. I built up the required seal with neoprene rubber.

Remarkable photo, hilbert. Thanks for this idea. Neoprene or a weather strip should do the trick. I'm trying to guess how you measured the gap from underneath.

[hilbert]

Cliff,

I climbed into the lazarette with a caliber and objects of known width to use as feeler gauges (there was no latch installed to trap me).
I would not assume any symmetry in the fit of the port and starboard covers.

I also replaced the single middle latch with two latches opposed to the hinges.


FYI: The hinge screws penetrate the covers core. As with other fittings, the factory used only sealant. If the cover does not seat evenly, it puts a lot of stress on the hinges and the screws. It is easier to properly bed the screws in epoxy now, than to repair the core later.
Just my 2 cents,
Jonathan

[tjr818]

I'm trying to guess how you measured the gap from underneath.

When the wind slams the lid down on your fingers, all you have to do is measure the distance between the two scars on your little finger. Mine was 3/8". I used neoprene padding on top of the wood blocks that are near the hinges. I am looking for some sort of "U" shaped weather stripping that will fit over the opening and press tightly against the lid. I am sure such a thing exists, I just haven found it yet. McMaster-Carr, perhaps?

[Sea Hunt Video]

Johnathan:

In your photo your cockpit locker does not appear to have any way of keeping rain water from falling into the slot between the cockpit seat and the hatch. I would think rain water would readily get into the cockpit locker.

I know you have a 1976 CD 28, Cliff has a CD 27 and I have a 1982 CD 25D. I looked at a few CD 27 during my search for a CD 25D.

On CD 25Ds, and I think CD 27s, there is a 2 1/2" to 3" teak rail around the opening that the lid folds down over. Presumably this teak "rail" is supposed to keep water from entering the cockpit locker.

I would be interested to know if you experienced this rain water issue and if the installation of the neoprene solved this.

As chronicled in another thread I am actively in search of one or more small leaks that allow water into the engine sump and possibly the bilge.

I think some rain water is getting in through the portside cockpit hatch. All I can think of is that it is somehow going "up and over" the 2 1/2" to 3" teak rail and then down into the locker. After looking at your photos I installed 1/2" vinyl foam stripping on the inside of the lid similar to how you installed your neoprene in the hope that this seals the hatch cover more completely and keeps rain water from climbing "up and over" the teak rail.

On S/V Bali Ha'i the noise/rattling issue was solely on the starboard locker hatch. Applying two short 6" strips of the vinyl foam stripping on each side of the hasp eliminated the rattling.

[John Stone]

I use EDPM and silicon "D" gaskets that I buy at McMaster-Carr on the Far Reach. You can buy it with adhesive backing or use contact cement. You can get it in 3/8" thick all the way to 1" thick. It compresses well.

Here is a link. http://www.mcmaster.com/#foam-rubber-bu ... ts/=hymxi8

With a little searching on the site you'll find other options that may work better for your particular situation.

[rtbates]

Johnathan:

In your photo your cockpit locker does not appear to have any way of keeping rain water from falling into the slot between the cockpit seat and the hatch. I would think rain water would readily get into the cockpit locker.

I know you have a 1976 CD 28, Cliff has a CD 27 and I have a 1982 CD 25D. I looked at a few CD 27 during my search for a CD 25D.

On CD 25Ds, and I think CD 27s, there is a 2 1/2" to 3" teak rail around the opening that the lid folds down over. Presumably this teak "rail" is supposed to keep water from entering the cockpit locker.

I would be interested to know if you experienced this rain water issue and if the installation of the neoprene solved this.

As chronicled in another thread I am actively in search of one or more small leaks that allow water into the engine sump and possibly the bilge.

I think some rain water is getting in through the portside cockpit hatch. All I can think of is that it is somehow going "up and over" the 2 1/2" to 3" teak rail and then down into the locker. After looking at your photos I installed 1/2" vinyl foam stripping on the inside of the lid similar to how you installed your neoprene in the hope that this seals the hatch cover more completely and keeps rain water from climbing "up and over" the teak rail.

On S/V Bali Ha'i the noise/rattling issue was solely on the starboard locker hatch. Applying two short 6" strips of the vinyl foam stripping on each side of the hasp eliminated the rattling.

I thought the same thing,at first glance, as our 25D is like yours, with the teak rail inside. Upon second glance I noticed that his 'teak' rail is fiberglass. There appears to be a channel behind it like on our 25Ds..

[cguthrie]

My CD27 doesn't have a teak rail. It is a fiberglass rail but there is a teak block, I believe. I'll try to remember to snap a pic of it tomorrow.

[cguthrie]

Well here are before and after photos of what I hope is the big fix for the locker lid rattle. Note in the photos the huge difference between the bare teak blocks and the ones with a little bit of self-adhesive weather stripping. It cost about $5 at the home store. It seems to work and if it un-adheres, I've got about ten more feet of the stuff. Thanks to all for the good discussion. Cliff

portlocker.jpg

Portlockerfixed.jpg

[hilbert]

Cliff's pictures are illuminating. I took it for granted that the lazarettes were all of similar construction.
After reading Robert's question, I understand that my picture does not show the depth of the channel.

The lower lip, on which the rubber compresses against, is raised. There is a relatively deep channel that runs on all three sides of the lower lip and drains into the cockpit.
Even before there was a properly fitted gasket, there was never a problem with water flowing into the locker. I put a lot of effort into fixing the core of the covers and their appearance, so it only seemed proper to finish the job by addressing their fit, seal and security.



Jonathan