There has been a lot of talk about all these subjects on the board recently and since I am somewhat of an expert on all these subjects I thought I'd make some comments.
I had owned dinghies and daysailors in the past but when I was transferred to Washington DC and had access to the Chesapeake I wanted a cruising boat. My financial circumstances at the time were limited and I bought a used Catalina 22.
The Catalina, for what it was, was an honest boat and gave me much pleasure. But it taught me bad habits. It had a swing keel, so with the soft bottom of the Chesapeake I'd just sail until the keel started to hit, and then crank the keel up a bit, come about, and start sailing off in the other direction until I started to bump bottom again. Not good practice for a fixed keel boat.
The Catalina had an outboard mounted on a bracket. The advantage was that it would swivel in any direction, and with the swing keel it would almost pivot about it's axis. No problem backing in anywhere. Compared to the CD-25 we now own it was a BIG advantage. The CD-25 with its full keel and the motor in a lazarette is MUCH worse in maneuverability.
The drawback to the motor on a bracket was that the prop wouln't stay in the water. I once was caught out in a real blow with 8-10 foot waves (no place for a Catalina 22) and was motorsailing, trying to make for shelter. The boat, under reefed main, had so much weather helm I could barely hold on to the tiller and the prop was out of the water more than it was in.
Then I got married. Along with my wife I got two lovely stepdaughters. The Catalina 22 suddenly got somewhat cramped. For those of you debating the merits of a CD-30 as a cruising boat, you really need to try cruising four people on a Catalina 22. We did it for long weekends and had great fun.
My fondest memory of the Catalina was from a time at anchor. I went down below to answer a call of nature. The Catalina had a port potti under the vee berth. I was taking care of business when shrieks and screams erupted from the cockpit. Thinking we were being boarded by pirates I leapt up and bashed my head on the overhead. With my pants around my ankles I charged up through the companionway only to find that the three females had managed to catch a 5" catfish.
(I will continue this saga as a reply to this message. For those of you who are bored by this drivel please feel free to skip to some posting more to your interest)
cpgjim@erols.com
Catalinas, Hunters and backing the CD-25
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Jim Swiatocha
Catalinas, Hunters and backing the CD-25 (Part 2)
My financial situation had improved and my new wife (who had only sailed once before) had become an avid sailor. So we went to buy a bigger boat. We found a 1978 Hunter 27 at a reasonable price and bought it. I put the Catalina up for sale and sold it for what I paid. Not bad for two years of fun.
The Hunter had standing headroom and an inboard diesel. A BIG improvemnt. The survey showed some delamination of the deck which was fixed with injection of epoxy. The '78 Hunter was actually a classy looking boat - very similar to a Cape Dory. It had plastic opening ports rather than the brass on our CD-25 but otherwise it had classic lines. It was (I think) a Cherubini design and I thought rather pretty.
Other than the problem with the delamination, we had no problems with the Hunter. This will probably get me thrown off this board, but I much preferred the Hunter 27 to the CD-25. There is a lot to be said for standing headroom. There is also a lot to be said for the inboard diesel. Coming in to port, I could keep my eyes forward and shift between forward and reverse as needed. With the CD-25 I have my head buried in the lazarette, I'm overcome by exhaust fumes, and the boat seems to do what it will no matter whether I'm in forward or reverse.
The Hunter may not have been as seaworthy as the CD, but for the Chesapeake it was fine.
In fairness to the Cape Dory, we are using a 1968 Evinrude 6 HP, which has some serious drawbacks. The shutoff is on the throttle. You have to throttle back to shift the engine, but if you go too far you kill the engine. And the throttle sticks. So if you're coming into your slip with a breeze up it is a very chancy proposition which is why my head is in the lazarette and I'm being overcome by exhaust fumes instead of watching where I'm going.
But for those of you who have never sailed with an inboard diesel, there are some definite advantages. The diesel has a kill button which means you never have to worry about killing the engine by throttling back too far. Plus, the prop is forward of the rudder so you can use the prop wash to steer the boat.
Overall I had no complaints about the Hunter 27. In fact, I would recommend it. But it had nothing in common with the recent Hunters which I think are UGLY. And maybe not built as well
Having been happy with the Hunter 27, when my wife became pregnant and we looked for a bigger boat which could cruise 5 in comfort, we naturally looked for a bigger Hunter.
(Continued in part 3. Same comment about drivel applies)
cpgjim@erols.com
The Hunter had standing headroom and an inboard diesel. A BIG improvemnt. The survey showed some delamination of the deck which was fixed with injection of epoxy. The '78 Hunter was actually a classy looking boat - very similar to a Cape Dory. It had plastic opening ports rather than the brass on our CD-25 but otherwise it had classic lines. It was (I think) a Cherubini design and I thought rather pretty.
Other than the problem with the delamination, we had no problems with the Hunter. This will probably get me thrown off this board, but I much preferred the Hunter 27 to the CD-25. There is a lot to be said for standing headroom. There is also a lot to be said for the inboard diesel. Coming in to port, I could keep my eyes forward and shift between forward and reverse as needed. With the CD-25 I have my head buried in the lazarette, I'm overcome by exhaust fumes, and the boat seems to do what it will no matter whether I'm in forward or reverse.
The Hunter may not have been as seaworthy as the CD, but for the Chesapeake it was fine.
In fairness to the Cape Dory, we are using a 1968 Evinrude 6 HP, which has some serious drawbacks. The shutoff is on the throttle. You have to throttle back to shift the engine, but if you go too far you kill the engine. And the throttle sticks. So if you're coming into your slip with a breeze up it is a very chancy proposition which is why my head is in the lazarette and I'm being overcome by exhaust fumes instead of watching where I'm going.
But for those of you who have never sailed with an inboard diesel, there are some definite advantages. The diesel has a kill button which means you never have to worry about killing the engine by throttling back too far. Plus, the prop is forward of the rudder so you can use the prop wash to steer the boat.
Overall I had no complaints about the Hunter 27. In fact, I would recommend it. But it had nothing in common with the recent Hunters which I think are UGLY. And maybe not built as well
Having been happy with the Hunter 27, when my wife became pregnant and we looked for a bigger boat which could cruise 5 in comfort, we naturally looked for a bigger Hunter.
(Continued in part 3. Same comment about drivel applies)
cpgjim@erols.com
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Jim Swiatocha
Re: Catalinas, Hunters, etc (Part 3)
It was 1983 and the Hunter dealer had a leftover 1982 37. I was always the prudent one and had decided on a used Hunter 30. But my wife fell in love with the leftover 37. I argued for the 30 but her heart was set on the 37 and who can say no to a pregnant woman?
We named the boat October Wind. We actually made the decision to move up in October 1982. We were out sailing the 27 and I was down below when a fierce gust knocked us down with my wife at the helm. One minute I was upright and the next minute I was looking out the porthole and seeing nothing but water. Since an October Wind had caused us to decide to get a bigger boat, that became her name.
We took delivery in spring of 1983 and then the problems set in. For those of you who have never seen an 82 Hunter 37, it is a Cherubini design and (I think) a very classy boat. The hull is built like a brick sh*#&%$#@& and I think it would take you anywhere, but the rest of the boat leaves something to be desired. The standing rigging is marginal and the sound insulation of the engine non existent.
But for the Chesapeake it was good enough. It was a cutter and ideal for lazy cruising in a fair breeze. With its self tending jib I could sit in the cockpit and tack with beer in hand just by turning the wheel back and forth. No sheets to tend.
My fondest memory of this boat was our first overnight with my mother-in-law and our new baby on board. We came into our anchorage just as a fierce thunderstorm hit. Being a leftover, the dealer had scavanged the boat for spare parts and had hurriedly replaced them to deliver the boat to us. The anchorage was crowded, the wind was blowing stink, the rain was coming down horizontal, I could barely see the bow of the boat from the cabin, and the engine started to overheat. Turns out the dealer had scavanged the original waterpump and installed the replacement incorrectly. We could run the engine abuut two minutes before it would start to overheat. In a crowded anchorage with my mother-in-law and new baby on board and all h#$% breaking loose outside.
Hollering down the companionway "No problem Ma" I found a spot to anchor but the anchor dragged. I could take the strain off the rode with the engine but only for two minutes at a time. We gave up on that spot and I motored off to another. The spot was tight and visibility was poor but it looked like we had enough clearance and the anchor was holding and the engine was overheating so we called it quits and went to bed.
Only to be awakened in the middle of the night by a horn sounding. I pulled on my pants and ran up topside to find that the wind had died, the boats were lying every which way at anchor and we were bumping up against (oh, the shame of it) a CAPE DORY!
You can't imagine my shame and humiliation. A Cape Dory, to a Hunter owner, was something to be lusted for and worshipped. To possibly be marring the hull of one was unthinkable. I apologized in every way I could think of, hauled anchor, and motored off.
(Next posting is the last. I promise. Usual comment about drivel applies)
cpgjim@erols.com
We named the boat October Wind. We actually made the decision to move up in October 1982. We were out sailing the 27 and I was down below when a fierce gust knocked us down with my wife at the helm. One minute I was upright and the next minute I was looking out the porthole and seeing nothing but water. Since an October Wind had caused us to decide to get a bigger boat, that became her name.
We took delivery in spring of 1983 and then the problems set in. For those of you who have never seen an 82 Hunter 37, it is a Cherubini design and (I think) a very classy boat. The hull is built like a brick sh*#&%$#@& and I think it would take you anywhere, but the rest of the boat leaves something to be desired. The standing rigging is marginal and the sound insulation of the engine non existent.
But for the Chesapeake it was good enough. It was a cutter and ideal for lazy cruising in a fair breeze. With its self tending jib I could sit in the cockpit and tack with beer in hand just by turning the wheel back and forth. No sheets to tend.
My fondest memory of this boat was our first overnight with my mother-in-law and our new baby on board. We came into our anchorage just as a fierce thunderstorm hit. Being a leftover, the dealer had scavanged the boat for spare parts and had hurriedly replaced them to deliver the boat to us. The anchorage was crowded, the wind was blowing stink, the rain was coming down horizontal, I could barely see the bow of the boat from the cabin, and the engine started to overheat. Turns out the dealer had scavanged the original waterpump and installed the replacement incorrectly. We could run the engine abuut two minutes before it would start to overheat. In a crowded anchorage with my mother-in-law and new baby on board and all h#$% breaking loose outside.
Hollering down the companionway "No problem Ma" I found a spot to anchor but the anchor dragged. I could take the strain off the rode with the engine but only for two minutes at a time. We gave up on that spot and I motored off to another. The spot was tight and visibility was poor but it looked like we had enough clearance and the anchor was holding and the engine was overheating so we called it quits and went to bed.
Only to be awakened in the middle of the night by a horn sounding. I pulled on my pants and ran up topside to find that the wind had died, the boats were lying every which way at anchor and we were bumping up against (oh, the shame of it) a CAPE DORY!
You can't imagine my shame and humiliation. A Cape Dory, to a Hunter owner, was something to be lusted for and worshipped. To possibly be marring the hull of one was unthinkable. I apologized in every way I could think of, hauled anchor, and motored off.
(Next posting is the last. I promise. Usual comment about drivel applies)
cpgjim@erols.com
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Jim Swiatocha
Re: Catalinas, Hunters, etc (Part 4)
In the years following we started our own business. Time and money got short and we sold the Hunter 37. We were out of sailing for about 10 years when we got the urge again.
For several years while we were sailing, we attended the Annapolis boat show religiously every year. When we decided to get back into sailing we hauled out all the literature we had collected all those years and found it was predominately Shannon, Island Packet and Cape Dory.
We didn't want a boat that would be too expensive to buy or maintain which left out the first two, and when we found this board and looked into the CD-25 we decided we had found our boat. We couldn't afford a Cape Dory when they were new, but our income had gone up and the CD prices (as used boats) had gone down, and so now they were affordable. We settled on a 25 as we planned to use the boat primarily as a daysailor and the lack of accomodations would not be a significant drawback.
But I don't like the engine in the well! We have a slip on St. Patrick's Creek on the lower Potomac and it is impractical to dock bow-in because it would be very difficult to board the boat at low tide. So we are forced to back in and every time it is an adventure. I think if I could do it often enough I coud get the hang of it but we don't get to sail the boat very often and every time the wind conditions are different and every time it is an adventure. So we are debating whether to replace the old '68 Evinrude with a modern 4 stroke or to save the money and put it toward a CD-30. Which would have the inboard diesel and would be a cutter rig and I could back into the slip and tack one handed while drinking a beer and I think the only thing that is holding me back from the CD-30 is that I'm afraid that some no-class Hunter owner would bash into me in the middle of the night.
(No more drivel)
cpgjim@erols.com
For several years while we were sailing, we attended the Annapolis boat show religiously every year. When we decided to get back into sailing we hauled out all the literature we had collected all those years and found it was predominately Shannon, Island Packet and Cape Dory.
We didn't want a boat that would be too expensive to buy or maintain which left out the first two, and when we found this board and looked into the CD-25 we decided we had found our boat. We couldn't afford a Cape Dory when they were new, but our income had gone up and the CD prices (as used boats) had gone down, and so now they were affordable. We settled on a 25 as we planned to use the boat primarily as a daysailor and the lack of accomodations would not be a significant drawback.
But I don't like the engine in the well! We have a slip on St. Patrick's Creek on the lower Potomac and it is impractical to dock bow-in because it would be very difficult to board the boat at low tide. So we are forced to back in and every time it is an adventure. I think if I could do it often enough I coud get the hang of it but we don't get to sail the boat very often and every time the wind conditions are different and every time it is an adventure. So we are debating whether to replace the old '68 Evinrude with a modern 4 stroke or to save the money and put it toward a CD-30. Which would have the inboard diesel and would be a cutter rig and I could back into the slip and tack one handed while drinking a beer and I think the only thing that is holding me back from the CD-30 is that I'm afraid that some no-class Hunter owner would bash into me in the middle of the night.
(No more drivel)
cpgjim@erols.com
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don sargeant
Re: Catalinas, Hunters, etc (Part 4)
Good story, Jim, but you shoulda bought a 25D
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D #189
6 feet of headroom in Greenwich Cove
don@cliggott.com
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D #189
6 feet of headroom in Greenwich Cove
Jim Swiatocha wrote: In the years following we started our own business. Time and money got short and we sold the Hunter 37. We were out of sailing for about 10 years when we got the urge again.
For several years while we were sailing, we attended the Annapolis boat show religiously every year. When we decided to get back into sailing we hauled out all the literature we had collected all those years and found it was predominately Shannon, Island Packet and Cape Dory.
We didn't want a boat that would be too expensive to buy or maintain which left out the first two, and when we found this board and looked into the CD-25 we decided we had found our boat. We couldn't afford a Cape Dory when they were new, but our income had gone up and the CD prices (as used boats) had gone down, and so now they were affordable. We settled on a 25 as we planned to use the boat primarily as a daysailor and the lack of accomodations would not be a significant drawback.
But I don't like the engine in the well! We have a slip on St. Patrick's Creek on the lower Potomac and it is impractical to dock bow-in because it would be very difficult to board the boat at low tide. So we are forced to back in and every time it is an adventure. I think if I could do it often enough I coud get the hang of it but we don't get to sail the boat very often and every time the wind conditions are different and every time it is an adventure. So we are debating whether to replace the old '68 Evinrude with a modern 4 stroke or to save the money and put it toward a CD-30. Which would have the inboard diesel and would be a cutter rig and I could back into the slip and tack one handed while drinking a beer and I think the only thing that is holding me back from the CD-30 is that I'm afraid that some no-class Hunter owner would bash into me in the middle of the night.
(No more drivel)
don@cliggott.com
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Max Treece
Re: Catalinas, Hunters and backing the CD-25 (Part 2)
I enjoyed all your commentary (all Parts). I use a Johnson 6 hp on my CD25 and think I have solved the exhaust fume problem. I have vented the exhaust port that is in the well to the outside with a piece of aluminum tubing glued to a plate glued to the port. It takes all the smoke out under the water and the motor no longer stalls from lack of fresh air in the well. Mine is a short shaft and turns easily in the well to assist in backing or steering the boat. Also changed the standard prop to a higher (?) pitch and the motor runs fine and never sounds like it is overloaded as with the standard prop. The motor with this prop pushes the boat fine in heavy winds. You just have to make sure not to reve it up too fast with the easier loaded prop.
Thanks again for your article of cruising experiences.
metreece@ureach.com
Thanks again for your article of cruising experiences.
Jim Swiatocha wrote: My financial situation had improved and my new wife (who had only sailed once before) had become an avid sailor. So we went to buy a bigger boat. We found a 1978 Hunter 27 at a reasonable price and bought it. I put the Catalina up for sale and sold it for what I paid. Not bad for two years of fun.
The Hunter had standing headroom and an inboard diesel. A BIG improvemnt. The survey showed some delamination of the deck which was fixed with injection of epoxy. The '78 Hunter was actually a classy looking boat - very similar to a Cape Dory. It had plastic opening ports rather than the brass on our CD-25 but otherwise it had classic lines. It was (I think) a Cherubini design and I thought rather pretty.
Other than the problem with the delamination, we had no problems with the Hunter. This will probably get me thrown off this board, but I much preferred the Hunter 27 to the CD-25. There is a lot to be said for standing headroom. There is also a lot to be said for the inboard diesel. Coming in to port, I could keep my eyes forward and shift between forward and reverse as needed. With the CD-25 I have my head buried in the lazarette, I'm overcome by exhaust fumes, and the boat seems to do what it will no matter whether I'm in forward or reverse.
The Hunter may not have been as seaworthy as the CD, but for the Chesapeake it was fine.
In fairness to the Cape Dory, we are using a 1968 Evinrude 6 HP, which has some serious drawbacks. The shutoff is on the throttle. You have to throttle back to shift the engine, but if you go too far you kill the engine. And the throttle sticks. So if you're coming into your slip with a breeze up it is a very chancy proposition which is why my head is in the lazarette and I'm being overcome by exhaust fumes instead of watching where I'm going.
But for those of you who have never sailed with an inboard diesel, there are some definite advantages. The diesel has a kill button which means you never have to worry about killing the engine by throttling back too far. Plus, the prop is forward of the rudder so you can use the prop wash to steer the boat.
Overall I had no complaints about the Hunter 27. In fact, I would recommend it. But it had nothing in common with the recent Hunters which I think are UGLY. And maybe not built as well
Having been happy with the Hunter 27, when my wife became pregnant and we looked for a bigger boat which could cruise 5 in comfort, we naturally looked for a bigger Hunter.
(Continued in part 3. Same comment about drivel applies)
metreece@ureach.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Didn't think it was drivel
Jim,
Great story and I didn't think any of it was drivel.
But I've got some good news and bad news.
First the good news: The CD30 is a great boat. She's seaworthy, seakindly and sails well. I'm sure the CD30 owners who regularly use this board will agree. The inboard diesel and wheel steering are definite pluses.
Now the bad news: As with all full keel boats, and the Cape Dory is no exception, the CD30 doesn't back very well either. But it can be done, at least you won't be suffocating yourself in the engine well.
We used to keep our CD32 at a fixed dock and always backed her in. Here's <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/atth ... ealization backed into her slip</a>.
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/atthedock2.jpg">Here she is again</a>. Note the walk lines running from the pilings to the dock. We just used a boathook to grab the appropriate walk line as we backed in and never had a mishap.
I'm not sure you'd be able to back in this way while using the outboard. It's difficult to steer and use the boathook with your head in the engine well.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
Great story and I didn't think any of it was drivel.
But I've got some good news and bad news.
First the good news: The CD30 is a great boat. She's seaworthy, seakindly and sails well. I'm sure the CD30 owners who regularly use this board will agree. The inboard diesel and wheel steering are definite pluses.
Now the bad news: As with all full keel boats, and the Cape Dory is no exception, the CD30 doesn't back very well either. But it can be done, at least you won't be suffocating yourself in the engine well.
We used to keep our CD32 at a fixed dock and always backed her in. Here's <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/atth ... ealization backed into her slip</a>.
<a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/atthedock2.jpg">Here she is again</a>. Note the walk lines running from the pilings to the dock. We just used a boathook to grab the appropriate walk line as we backed in and never had a mishap.
I'm not sure you'd be able to back in this way while using the outboard. It's difficult to steer and use the boathook with your head in the engine well.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 <a href="http://www.hometown.aol.com/bcomet/real ... ization</a>, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Jim Swiatocha wrote: In the years following we started our own business. Time and money got short and we sold the Hunter 37. We were out of sailing for about 10 years when we got the urge again.
For several years while we were sailing, we attended the Annapolis boat show religiously every year. When we decided to get back into sailing we hauled out all the literature we had collected all those years and found it was predominately Shannon, Island Packet and Cape Dory.
We didn't want a boat that would be too expensive to buy or maintain which left out the first two, and when we found this board and looked into the CD-25 we decided we had found our boat. We couldn't afford a Cape Dory when they were new, but our income had gone up and the CD prices (as used boats) had gone down, and so now they were affordable. We settled on a 25 as we planned to use the boat primarily as a daysailor and the lack of accomodations would not be a significant drawback.
But I don't like the engine in the well! We have a slip on St. Patrick's Creek on the lower Potomac and it is impractical to dock bow-in because it would be very difficult to board the boat at low tide. So we are forced to back in and every time it is an adventure. I think if I could do it often enough I coud get the hang of it but we don't get to sail the boat very often and every time the wind conditions are different and every time it is an adventure. So we are debating whether to replace the old '68 Evinrude with a modern 4 stroke or to save the money and put it toward a CD-30. Which would have the inboard diesel and would be a cutter rig and I could back into the slip and tack one handed while drinking a beer and I think the only thing that is holding me back from the CD-30 is that I'm afraid that some no-class Hunter owner would bash into me in the middle of the night.
(No more drivel)
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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John K.
Re: Catalinas, Hunters, etc (Part 4)
In many ways an inboard would be preferable, but I just put a new Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke in my CD26. Consider: there is no smoke or choking fumes (Yamaha has re-routed one of the exhaust lines and solved that problem), it's a long-shaft and the prop never comes out of the water (even under rough conditions), has electric start and comes to life in a split second, pivots a little in the engine well which makes for easier backing control, sips less than a gallon per hour pushing the boat at full hull speed, has the shifter out next to the throttle (no need to reach into the engine locker to operate the engine; it's just like operating an inboard diesel), is cheap to mainitain, and when the time comes, you can replace it and have another BRAND NEW ENGINE for about $2000.
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Chris Cram
backing in.
I must say,
I have always prefered to back in.
There are exceptions to the rule but when powering the control is in the stern.
I always start the pirouette (turn) just before the slip then go into reverse during the turn. this retards the turn and starts motion backwards. Further get out of reverse quickly or the prop walk will draw the boat back to port. short bursts of power will accomplish more than than prolonged easy throttling. the caveat is of course the WIND--always factor in the wind I know I don't need to say more on that.
Chris
p.s. of course that doesn't mean I want to invite you all down to watch me back in cause that is when it won't work.
cccobx@prodigy.net
I have always prefered to back in.
There are exceptions to the rule but when powering the control is in the stern.
I always start the pirouette (turn) just before the slip then go into reverse during the turn. this retards the turn and starts motion backwards. Further get out of reverse quickly or the prop walk will draw the boat back to port. short bursts of power will accomplish more than than prolonged easy throttling. the caveat is of course the WIND--always factor in the wind I know I don't need to say more on that.
Chris
p.s. of course that doesn't mean I want to invite you all down to watch me back in cause that is when it won't work.
cccobx@prodigy.net
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Don Carr
Re: backing in.
Chris;
You have it correct. Short bursts of full throttle to gain steerage way is the key. The prop walk will definitely ruin your day. In addition to the engine...consider spring lines also; they make all the difference.
carrd48@netzero.net
You have it correct. Short bursts of full throttle to gain steerage way is the key. The prop walk will definitely ruin your day. In addition to the engine...consider spring lines also; they make all the difference.
carrd48@netzero.net
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: backing in.
When I back in I bring the boat fairly close to the pilings (and the other boats) before turning away from my slip (at this point the boat is moving VERY slowly). I position the boat before the turn so that when I turn away the stern is pretty much between the pilings of the slip. I also try to turn far enough so that I can use the propwalk (which on Realization is to port when in reverse) to my advantage. (Our slip was on our starboard side so I nearly had to do a 360 to port to accomplish this.) I then put the boat in reverse to get sternway. Then I shift into neutral and the boat will continue backing slowly with her own momentum. (You may still need to use short bursts of power in reverse depending on conditions.) At this point we are close enough to the pilings that a crew member can easily grab one of the spring lines with a boathook (which one depends on the wind) and attach it to the midship cleat. He then walks forward and gets the bow line as I continue guiding the boat backwards. I steer with one hand and grab a walkline with the boathook which is in the other if I need to. Then I give her a short burst in forward to stop her. I then grab the stern lines and tie them off while the other spring and bow lines are being attached by the crew. It works everytime -- and almost always with an audience. (I think people are sometimes surprised to see a woman at the helm. And sometime the audience was on the boat behind us which was on its way to its slip too.)
One of the liveaboards at our marina had a tiff with his slip neighbor a couple of years ago because his neighbor managed to ram his boat everytime he docked -- without fail (and he noses his boat in). This earned the fellow, who shall remain nameless, the nickname "Dr. Crash". The liveaboard, Walter, finally got fed up with this and finally said something to Dr. Crash. Dr. Crash's reply was that Walter should get bigger fenders! To this, Walter became more angry and told Dr. Crash that he should invest in some boat handling lessons. Dr. Crash then told Walter that he had been sailing for over 30 years and that his father owned a boatyard and that he didn't need lessons. (Well I've seen Dr. Crash handle his boat and he enters his slip at full throttle! Once he almost ran us down while we were waiting for a bridge opening -- his wife yelled to me "Catherine, please move" as they drove up my butt. A couple years earlier he ran into the open railroad bridge which broke his forestay and snapped the bowsprit off of his boat.) Then Walter told him that he "...should watch the woman with the Cape Dory back into her slip, she doesn't hit anybody...maybe you could get some tips from her..." When Walter told me that he had this discussion with Dr. Crash I nearly died. Anyway, you can maneuver your Cape Dory in reverse, it just takes practice -- and go slow. If I can do it, anybody can. And I don't even have 30 years' sailing experience.
(By the way, after the exchange of words between Walter and Dr. Crash, Dr. Crash had his boat moved to a different slip, this time at one of the floating docks -- you guessed it, he now crashes into his new slip neighbor on entering his slip -- everytime without fail. The other guy is just as bad. I guess they are natural slip neighbors.)
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
One of the liveaboards at our marina had a tiff with his slip neighbor a couple of years ago because his neighbor managed to ram his boat everytime he docked -- without fail (and he noses his boat in). This earned the fellow, who shall remain nameless, the nickname "Dr. Crash". The liveaboard, Walter, finally got fed up with this and finally said something to Dr. Crash. Dr. Crash's reply was that Walter should get bigger fenders! To this, Walter became more angry and told Dr. Crash that he should invest in some boat handling lessons. Dr. Crash then told Walter that he had been sailing for over 30 years and that his father owned a boatyard and that he didn't need lessons. (Well I've seen Dr. Crash handle his boat and he enters his slip at full throttle! Once he almost ran us down while we were waiting for a bridge opening -- his wife yelled to me "Catherine, please move" as they drove up my butt. A couple years earlier he ran into the open railroad bridge which broke his forestay and snapped the bowsprit off of his boat.) Then Walter told him that he "...should watch the woman with the Cape Dory back into her slip, she doesn't hit anybody...maybe you could get some tips from her..." When Walter told me that he had this discussion with Dr. Crash I nearly died. Anyway, you can maneuver your Cape Dory in reverse, it just takes practice -- and go slow. If I can do it, anybody can. And I don't even have 30 years' sailing experience.
(By the way, after the exchange of words between Walter and Dr. Crash, Dr. Crash had his boat moved to a different slip, this time at one of the floating docks -- you guessed it, he now crashes into his new slip neighbor on entering his slip -- everytime without fail. The other guy is just as bad. I guess they are natural slip neighbors.)
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Don Carr wrote: Chris;
You have it correct. Short bursts of full throttle to gain steerage way is the key. The prop walk will definitely ruin your day. In addition to the engine...consider spring lines also; they make all the difference.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
-
Don Carr
Re: backing in.
Catherine;
Nice write up. However the CD25 and I suspect the 26 have a very special handling problem in that the prop is aft of the rudder as opposed to the traditional inboard configuration. Added to this is the fact that there is a very narrow turning radius of the outboard. You are very limited in power handling...I find that there is no substitute for steerageway on these boats. I don't imply full speed..but bursts of full throttle to overcome inertia.
carrd48@netzero.net
Nice write up. However the CD25 and I suspect the 26 have a very special handling problem in that the prop is aft of the rudder as opposed to the traditional inboard configuration. Added to this is the fact that there is a very narrow turning radius of the outboard. You are very limited in power handling...I find that there is no substitute for steerageway on these boats. I don't imply full speed..but bursts of full throttle to overcome inertia.
carrd48@netzero.net
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Dave Bristle
Re: Catalinas, Hunters and backing the CD-25
Thanks, Jim! And thanks to your wife for her discussions (that may have led to your story) in response to my question on the 25. I've sailed about 48 of my 55 years on all sizes and types of boats (mostly not my own), and now want to move "up" to something larger than my day sailer, but which will fit into a slip in our town boat club on L.I. Sound. My history with CDs is like yours--silent lust for several decades... I feel like now may be the time, but backing in is, unfortunately, the potential show-stopper. I do understand the discussions on angles, throttle bursts, prop walk, etc... I think my experience and these suggestions may get me through--we'll see. I also think a "high thrust" prop may help, as might Yamaha's reverse exhaust vents that keep the gasses away from the prop.
BTW, we plan a move from CT to the Annapolis area (or possibly the MD Eastern Shore) within a couple of years, so the shallow draft and protected rudder could be plusses for us as for you. The 25D is interesting--I saw it when it was new--but I'm disinterested in an inboard or the extra 10 grand at this point.
Thanks again for taking us on your fine ride! This site is a definite feature for buyers and owners.
- Dave
bristle@att.net
BTW, we plan a move from CT to the Annapolis area (or possibly the MD Eastern Shore) within a couple of years, so the shallow draft and protected rudder could be plusses for us as for you. The 25D is interesting--I saw it when it was new--but I'm disinterested in an inboard or the extra 10 grand at this point.
Thanks again for taking us on your fine ride! This site is a definite feature for buyers and owners.
- Dave
bristle@att.net
-
Ken Coit
Re: backing in.
Catherine,
Thanks! I just read your docking story. It was a great way to end the week.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
Thanks! I just read your docking story. It was a great way to end the week.
Ken
parfait@nc.rr.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: backing in.
Good story Catherine! We have all met this guy before..my experience is with the owner of a Tayana 37 in our area. He seems to believe that a heavy boat requires a heavy hand. One time, we happened to be at the gas dock visiting some friends that were there for supplies. Our friend comes in the marina..full speed, wake flying off the bow. He makes the right-angle turn into his fairway, and continues down toward the bulkhead at full throttle. I realized that he was going to be way too hot for landing so we grabbed a bunch of dock walkers, and got ready to fend him off the dock, and stop forward momentum before encountering the next boat on the dock. We did it. But his response to my comment that he was going about 400% too fast was that the boat needed a lot of power to steer..heh. No thanks from him or his bride by the way. Pleasant sort of landlubber, that guy.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Catherine Monaghan wrote: When I back in I bring the boat fairly close to the pilings (and the other boats) before turning away from my slip (at this point the boat is moving VERY slowly). I position the boat before the turn so that when I turn away the stern is pretty much between the pilings of the slip. I also try to turn far enough so that I can use the propwalk (which on Realization is to port when in reverse) to my advantage. (Our slip was on our starboard side so I nearly had to do a 360 to port to accomplish this.) I then put the boat in reverse to get sternway. Then I shift into neutral and the boat will continue backing slowly with her own momentum. (You may still need to use short bursts of power in reverse depending on conditions.) At this point we are close enough to the pilings that a crew member can easily grab one of the spring lines with a boathook (which one depends on the wind) and attach it to the midship cleat. He then walks forward and gets the bow line as I continue guiding the boat backwards. I steer with one hand and grab a walkline with the boathook which is in the other if I need to. Then I give her a short burst in forward to stop her. I then grab the stern lines and tie them off while the other spring and bow lines are being attached by the crew. It works everytime -- and almost always with an audience. (I think people are sometimes surprised to see a woman at the helm. And sometime the audience was on the boat behind us which was on its way to its slip too.)
One of the liveaboards at our marina had a tiff with his slip neighbor a couple of years ago because his neighbor managed to ram his boat everytime he docked -- without fail (and he noses his boat in). This earned the fellow, who shall remain nameless, the nickname "Dr. Crash". The liveaboard, Walter, finally got fed up with this and finally said something to Dr. Crash. Dr. Crash's reply was that Walter should get bigger fenders! To this, Walter became more angry and told Dr. Crash that he should invest in some boat handling lessons. Dr. Crash then told Walter that he had been sailing for over 30 years and that his father owned a boatyard and that he didn't need lessons. (Well I've seen Dr. Crash handle his boat and he enters his slip at full throttle! Once he almost ran us down while we were waiting for a bridge opening -- his wife yelled to me "Catherine, please move" as they drove up my butt. A couple years earlier he ran into the open railroad bridge which broke his forestay and snapped the bowsprit off of his boat.) Then Walter told him that he "...should watch the woman with the Cape Dory back into her slip, she doesn't hit anybody...maybe you could get some tips from her..." When Walter told me that he had this discussion with Dr. Crash I nearly died. Anyway, you can maneuver your Cape Dory in reverse, it just takes practice -- and go slow. If I can do it, anybody can. And I don't even have 30 years' sailing experience.
(By the way, after the exchange of words between Walter and Dr. Crash, Dr. Crash had his boat moved to a different slip, this time at one of the floating docks -- you guessed it, he now crashes into his new slip neighbor on entering his slip -- everytime without fail. The other guy is just as bad. I guess they are natural slip neighbors.)
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
Don Carr wrote: Chris;
You have it correct. Short bursts of full throttle to gain steerage way is the key. The prop walk will definitely ruin your day. In addition to the engine...consider spring lines also; they make all the difference.
demers@sgi.com