Equipment Failure Puzzler

[GeorgeV]

This last summer the cable on my steering quadrant broke. During the repair we discovered the quadrant stop was simply not long enough to guarantee that the rudder / quadrant did not over rotate. The yard built me a new longer one (maybe a inch longer) to keep the quadrant and the rudder from rotating too far and it is working great. I think the metal that the builder used was too soft to stand up over the years. My broke cable looked just like yours and I assume it we the result of the ineffective stop over a number of years.

I would recommend anyone who is replacing the cables on their quadrant to take a close look at the stop and replace it with a slightly longer stop.

Fair Winds

[Jack Carr]

I think the bent thimble is the key. It crushed appearance indicates a significant impact. Given it came off a CD 36 my first guess is a stay on the bow sprint was the first to be struck in a bow end collision. A more interesting story would be the mast hit a bridge.

[John Danicic]

The damage you had is exactly what I had. The stop itself was held in place by a couple of bolts, so don't try to straigten it, just take it out and have a shop make up a new one, it shouldn't cost much it was a simple fix once we identified the problem.

George:

Are the bolts that hold on the rudder stop the forward ones in this photo, marked with the yellow arrows?

If so, the stop appears to be adjustable. A new, longer one is most definitely in order. Thanks so much for your insight.

[David van den Burgh]

The damage you had is exactly what I had. The stop itself was held in place by a couple of bolts, so don't try to straigten it, just take it out and have a shop make up a new one, it shouldn't cost much it was a simple fix once we identified the problem.

George:

Are the bolts that hold on the rudder stop the forward ones in this photo, marked with the yellow arrows?

If so, the stop appears to be adjustable. A new, longer one is most definitely in order. Thanks so much for your insight.

Unless I've just never noticed, Ariel's stop is actually welded to the cross brace/sheave assembly. The bolt-on stop is a nice touch since you'll be able to modify/replace/adjust it rather easily. That's fortunate. This thread made me wonder how one would go about replacing the welded-on stop without having to weld in the engine compartment or remove the steering brace. Now I see that I could drill two holes and add an adjustable/removable system like yours. I'll have to remember that.

Good luck with your repair.

[GeorgeV]

I believe those are the bolts.

I personally did not remove it as it would have been impossible for me to get in that tight space. The yard had a young man 1/2 my size that did the work. I just remember it came out easily and it took less then 15 minutes to get it out, I think he spent more time squeezing in than actually removing the stop. They built the new stop in the machine shop at the yard and the whole job of removing the broken cables, building new ones, replacing them, then making the new stop and putting it in took under 4 hours.

The angle on the stop looks kind of weird but when you turn the wheel/guardant the strange angle makes more sense.

BTW: I had the work done at the Journeys End Marina in Rockland, ME and I couldn't be happier with the work they did. But, I did feel guilty making him squeeze in to such a tight space to do the work. It was also interesting that he worked partime for the local fire department and had been trained in working in tight spaces as part of his job. The older gentleman who supervised the work from above, was a former boat builder and he knew exactly what needed to be done.

Good Luck with your repair

[John Danicic]

To all:

To follow up on this post and bring it to a conclusion.

I installed a bright, shiny new Edson steering cable to replace the failed one and had a new rudder stop made to replace the bent and now useless OEM one.


Instead of the 1/4 steel plate that so dramatically bent, I had the welder use a 5/16 inch thick plate and he affixed the the now longer by 1 1/2 inch pipe angled ten degree forward. He reused the mounting plate.

The new rudder stop shaves about 10 degrees of rotation off the rudder from both sides according to the Raymarine rudder angle indicator and one and a half wheel rotations from lock to lock.

Viewing the steering wheel cog with the compass removed reveals that the connecting thimble of the chain/cable connection gets no-where near hitting the cog. A good thing; no more chewed up cable connections.

As to the cause of the rudder stop bending, we figured that early on in our ownership of Mariah, our first slip was located with a sudden, shallow mud bank a boat-length behind her. Unless we could get her to start turning to starboard right off the bat while backing out, into the mud we would go. As we Cape Dory owners all know, turning the wheel hard over while backing to starboard gives indifferent direction control. 3 out of 5 times backing out would plough us into the mud, pushing the rudder over farther and bending the rudder stop each time till it was bent out of the way completely and never touched the quadrant. I never noticed this and over the years, got used to all this rudder travel.


Needless to say, this new shorter travel of the rudder will more then likely affect how we steer in tight quarters. How much? We will find out after splash in next month.

[Dixon Hemphill]

Steering mechanism ---= no doubt about it!

[Russell]

Needless to say, this new shorter travel of the rudder will more then likely affect how we steer in tight quarters. How much? We will find out after splash in next month.

I increased the size of my rudder stop in order to decrease the travel of the rudder. I did this because when I installed my linear drive the distance was just too close to bottoming out the drive unit for my comfort. I too was worried about the reduced steerage, but ultimately I did not find the difference noticeable at all.

I am curious as to how much the steering cable was? I didnt know you could order them premade from edson, I thought you just had a rigger make one up. Its on my short list of things to do this summer, replace the steering cable and stow the old one as a backup. Mine not yet broken but original as far as I know and probably way overdue for replacement, loss of steering at sea is high on the list of fears.

[John Danicic]

Russell:

The Edson chain/cable assembly came with new clamps and SS eye bolts for the quadrant. Edson part # 774-2s2b9 it was about $260.00.

It's comforting to know that the tighter arc shan't make that much difference as to how she will steer. When our cable failed on a down wind run in 25 to 30 knots of wind, Mariah slowly but surely came head up into the wind by the time I got the deck access opening unscrewed and the emergency tiller installed. I never felt she was recklously out of control. However, she was a bear to steer with that tiller. A spare, cable chain set for off shore would be a very good thing.

[Oswego John]

It's comforting to know that the tighter arc shan't make that much difference as to how she will steer.

John,

10° less steering ability will have some effect on your steering but I feel that it won't be all that much. My feeling is that as the rudder starts off center line, it will have a little effect. The more the rudder becomes off center, the turning ability increases incrementally. This turning increase will gradually reduce as the rudder approaches 45° off center. The higher the angle past that point, the rudder has a braking tendency and a neglible increase in turning efficacy.

I feel that a high rudder angle approaching 35° to 45° will be adequate. You will certainly find out what is what in a month or so.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Keep knocking on wood until then.

Good luck,
O J