CD 27 & Inland Passage From Seattle to Alaska

[Richard G.]

How about a small clay pot on my Origo Stove - the 4000 model, liquid alcohol fuel not pressurized, leaving a port light cracked for ventilation. Heat the clay flower pot that will radiate heat.

I also find that the trawler lamp when lit will warm the cabin a bit too, but that is here in Southern California when a cold night is only in the 50's.

How does one vent the Tiny Tot?

[barfwinkle]

Hi Richard

You might be interested in the following link/story.

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... =vancouver

Fair Winds

[pete faga]

Origo makes a nice alcohol heater i don't know how many btu's.The price is about $125?

[Duncan]

True, a proper vented heater in a 27 is unlikely...

I think this would be true for later models with the bulkhead-mounted table.
Unfortunately, that table folds up into what is probably the ideal spot for the heater.

Earlier models (up to partway through 1978) had the salon table mounted on the cabin sole.
This setup leaves room to install the heater on the bulkhead

[Joe Myerson]

Origo makes a nice alcohol heater i don't know how many btu's.The price is about $125?

The Origo Heat Pal 5100 heater is indeed a nice little unit. It puts out 5200 BTUs of heat and, because it burns nonpressurized alcohol, it only requires you to crack your portlights a bit.

When a freak snowstorm knocked out power here in Central Massachusetts for four days and nights in October, I was able to convince the Admiral to loosen the purse strings by roughly $200 (including a gallon of denatured alcohol) for this little gem.

It was able to bring one room in the house up to a liveable 65 degrees (the cat fell in love with it), so I would imagine it would provide more than enough heat for an enclosed cabin. (Our old house is far from airtight, so we didn't have to open any windows--don't try this on your boat.)

The snowstorm was terrible: broken limbs everywhere and no running water from the well for much too long. But at least I got a nice little heater for the boat out of it.

--Joe

[Jim Davis]

I have tried several type of heaters and come to a couple conclusions. First the old standby - A real clay flower pot upside down over a low flame works and does a good job. For some reason it actually seems to radiate dry heat and the condensation problem isn't bad. Trawler Lamps are also a good form of heat to knock the morning, and evening chill out of the cabin.

Most of the unvented heaters produce a surprising amount of moisture and will leave the overhead dripping and everything a bit damp. This is especially evident on real cold nights. This category includes the Origo heater and the propane catalytic ones. They do a good job of producing heat, but I wouldn't want to use one for an extended period, nor do I like leaving a portable propane heater in the cabin over night.

The vented heaters, while expensive and requiring a permanent installation give dry heat and leave the cabin much more comfortable. The moisture from the combustion goes up the stack. These generally use propane, diesel or solid fuels. To me the drawbacks, other than installation and initial cost are related to operation. Propane heaters use a fair amount of propane, but they are probably the easiest to use. Diesel ones can be finicky and require either a fuel pump or day tank above the heater. You have to maintain pressure on the line and most don't like being heeled. They also tend to smell and folks with sensitive noses tend to complain. Solid fuel heaters are the most finicky of the bunch. They are too small to get a burn that lasts overnight and wood stowage can present problems.

That said, I opted to go with solid fuel and have tried a bunch of different "woods". First I tried one inch slices of Presto Log. This gave good heat, but after three weeks of four hours a day clogged the stack. The grease/wax used as a binder is real filthy and makes greasy soot. Charcoal (not Kingsford or Match Light) requires quite a lot for good heat and makes a tremendous amount of ash which has to be cleaned out before the next fire or reloading the fireplace. Drift wood and scrap wood from my junk box did well but required constant feeding and was easy to get too hot. If you get the fireplace too hot it can warp, so you have to be a little cautious. My latest fuel, and what I plan to stay with is Biomass Log. It is like a supersize pellet about the size of a brick. I cut them in half and get just over an hour burn from a piece with good heat. Also the ash production isn't bad. The chunks store well in a square dry wall bucket. I thought about coal, but finding the Biomass Logs stopped me from that experiment. If you go this route be sure and get a galvanized bucket to dump the ash in.

I'm not drawing any conclusions, just throwing out some observations from experience on my boat and others. The one other heat sources I haven't mentioned are the fixed Diesel Fired Forced Hot Air or Hydronic systems. These are really for larger boats, or budgets much greater than mine. They are capable of giving all the comforts of home to include thermostat control. If I ever need more than morning and evening heat I'll have to rethink my budget.

Please note these thoughts are related to heat for the boat while not tied up at a pier where electricity is available.

[tjr818]

Jim,
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, but I have two questions. What size Cape Dory do you have? and where do you sail? I have a CD27 in the Midwest. I really like the looks of the little fireplaces, but I have seen the mess charcoal briquettes can make.

[Jim Davis]

Between us my wife and I have a Ty DS and a CD25. These are for local playing. For our extended cruising we have a Ta Chaio CT35 ketch. Our cruising range is from Canada to Florida.

I have a Dickinson Newport Solid Fuel Fireplace on the ketch and there isn't a real mess problem. It has an ash drawer under the fire box, but the comment about the galvanized bucket is for dumping the ashes to take them on deck and dumping over the side. Hot coals sometimes last longer than you think.

[Paul D.]

Our 33 has a ten year old Newport solid fuel heater we installed on the bulkhead aft the head. It really, really warms and dries the cabin out on those epic, raw 38 degree rainy Lake Superior days of character.

I do wish it held a fire longer but the fuel is free, drift wood actually works pretty well but I use shop off cuts to start and some short cut two to four inch diameter oak branch trimmings from my yard as logs. They usually burn for 20 minutes each and rather nicely.

Charcoal burns nicely but creates a great deal of ash on deck, I do burn up the damp charcoal for the BBQ at the end of the season sometimes.

I thought a good idea would be to weld up a 1/4" steel box to fit inside the stainless Newport that would bit heavier, tighter and hold the fire longer. Presently I just put rocks on top of the heater to give it a little mass.

Tell you what though, on a cold rainy night, I am at complete peace with the world below with that bloody heater and the brass candle lantern aglow. Truly fine moments in time.

[Joe Myerson]

Jim,
Thanks for your observations. I've been wanting to use the clay-pot technique on cold mornings, and it looks like it works well.

A real clay flower pot upside down over a low flame works and does a good job. For some reason it actually seems to radiate dry heat and the condensation problem isn't bad. Trawler Lamps are also a good form of heat to knock the morning, and evening chill out of the cabin.

Of course, my experience with the Origo is limited to heating a single room in a home on dry land -- and in weather that was chilly but not freezing (the rest of the house was about 43 degrees for the duration of the power outage).

Most of the unvented heaters produce a surprising amount of moisture and will leave the overhead dripping and everything a bit damp. ... This category includes the Origo heater and the propane catalytic ones.

So, here's my theoretical question:

What about putting a clay flower pot over the heating element of the Origo Heat Pal heater? Would this reduce condensation and produce dry heat in the cabin?

Just a thought.

--Joe

[SurryMark]

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Duncan,
Do you have a photo of the heater exhaust pipe on top of the cabintop?
thanks a lot,
mark

[Loren]

I have a force 10 like on the previous post but my fuel is pressurized kerosene. (no longer available) The exhaust outlet is neat, small and lines don't catch on it. I feel that a propane unit would do a good job - if you have a place for a propane tank.
The other thing I recommend is a "bus heater" if your engine is not raw water cooled. I repowered with a Yanmar 2GM20 in 1998 and installed the heater on recommendation of a Mainer while crusing there in 2000. It was very useful for the ICW trips and our adventure out the St Lawrence River and around Nova Scotia. The heat is free whenever we motor along (lots on those trips) The cabin dries out during the day and many times the heat carried us through the evening so we didn't start the Force 10. It changed a cool damp environment to dry and warm all day or night while motoring,

Loren

[tartansailor]

Me, I like my 1 kw generator, (it only weighs 38 lbs.) lashed to the deck. It keeps my electric space heater glowing, cabin warm as toast, as well as keeping the batteries fully charged.
Dick

[Duncan]

Duncan, Do you have a photo of the heater exhaust pipe on top of the cabintop? thanks a lot, mark

Hi Mark
Sorry, I don't, it's a photo I saved from a "CD27 for sale" ad. Good thing Loren pitched in with the voice of experience!

I have a force 10 like on the previous post...The exhaust outlet is neat, small and lines don't catch on it.

I've picked up older two kerosene heaters, but I haven't decided which one to install yet.
If I won the lottery, I think I'd get the Wallas diesel-fired stovetop/heater (LINK). It seems just about perfect, because it:
- is compact, and combines cooking and heating
- uses diesel, and outside air
- is a beautiful piece of work
(which is probably why it costs thousands, instead of hundreds of dollars)

[Oswego John]

Trawler Lamps are also a good form of heat to knock the morning, and evening chill out of the cabin.

Most of the unvented heaters produce a surprising amount of moisture and will leave the overhead dripping and everything a bit damp. This is especially evident on real cold nights. This category includes the Origo heater and the propane catalytic ones. They do a good job of producing heat, but I wouldn't want to use one for an extended period, nor do I like leaving a portable propane heater in the cabin over night.

Years back, when we would go camping, we used a Coleman gas lamp at night. Not only did it provide adequate light to see with, it turned out to provide plenty of heat to warm up the tent. The last person still up had to turn off the lamp and scurry into his sleeping bag.

New subject:

I had been told by several sources that unvented propane heat would produce lots of moisture. Back in the mid 1970s, I was living in Fairbanks, Alaska. During the winter months, it is common for the temperature to reach 30, 40 or 50° below zero F. That isn't counting the wind chill factor.

I had a young apprentice working for me, a real nice guy whose wife recently presented him with a new born daughter. Earning a day's pay was very important to him. One crisp, cold morning, he didn't show up for work. When the day was over, I drove by his home to check on him. What I saw produced deep emotions for me. I felt so bad for his situation and yet wanted to roar with laughter. Talk about mixed emotions.

I'm not too familiar with what transpired and why. He drove a Volkswagon "Beetle". From what I understood, they had no water cooling, no radiator. He couldn't generate any hot water heat or windshield defrosting.

That night before retiring, he placed a propane heater inside the car and after lighting it, he set it on low. The next morning, when preparing to drive to work, the inside of the auto resembled the Ice Palace. There was at least a good 1/2" of ice built up on every surface and windows. The doors were frozen shut.

Well, long story short, I picked him up for work and drove him home each day for the longest time. I know that it wasn't amusing to him but I still get a chuckle to this day when thinking about when I first saw his "Ice Palace" on wheels.

O J