"Full Batten Main Sail" Pros & Cons?

[tartansailor]

About to order a new main sail for Renaissance and would like to know of any experiences you may have had with full batten main sails, + or -?
A loose foot and 3 reef points are a given.
My venue has the full range of sea state and wind, but mostly 12 to 15 knot wind and 3 to 5' chop.
Any insight would be gratefully appreciated.
Dick

[mike ritenour]

Dick,

I've been using a full battened main for years and love it.

The marked performance in sail shape, especially in light air is awesome.

The one negative is that when going full battened, batt cars are a real plus and they cost a bit of money.

However once the plunge is made, you'll never regret it.

Rit

[Dick Villamil]

I wholeheartedly agree - the use of a fully battened main will extend the useful life of the sail by 10 years and improve the shape - just tension the battens properly to attain the shape depending on the wind. Get good batten cars however since they will make a stack on the mast groove higher than the old slugs, the height of the sail cover requirements may need some tailoring adjustments to (and/or a way to extend your reach to put the sail cover on the main). I really like the loose footed main - great in light air and the rain doesn't collect in the pocket along the boom to flow down into your foulies in a gushing torrent when sailing in the rain!

[GLutzow]

Did either of you find that going to a full batten main places extraordinary stress on the boom which was designed to use a captive footed main?

[marilou]

Have not found any negatives. If there is one, it is that it can put extra wear on the sail from catching on the topping lift (if not set properly). I don't see how it could put more stress on the boom.??
Full battens are useful/beneficial with Lazy Jacks.

[Maine Sail]

I've been back and forth a number of times and am currently on a 2+2 set up. Top two full with lowers longish but not full.

I am a racer first, main sail trimmer mostly but do it all, then a cruiser, so I like my sail tweaking..

I disliked the constant batten adjustments I would have to make for differing winds to eek the best performance from my sail whe I had full battens.

While most never touch the battens, or even know they are adjustable, they are and should be if you really want that extra .2 knot. With just two adjustable battens up top it is easier to adjust for conditions and I can shape my sail quite a bit easier with the sail controls than I can with a full batten sail, especially in light air.

There are pro's and cons to each and no one right answer.

Full battens can be great as can a 2+2 it's all what you want out of the sail and how you want to use it.

Full Batten Pro's:

*Limit flogging

*Add life to the sail

*Flake easier

*Work well with a stack pack system

*Ultimate sail tweaking if willing to raise and lower sail to change batten tension with wind changes

Full Batten Con's:

*Harder to "shape" the sail with the sail controls in lighter winds

*For ultimate shape you need to manually adjust the battens, can be tedious

*Can make raising and lowering more difficult on some spars

*If batt cars are added it can raise the height of the flaked sail on the spar and it can be harder to reach or may require a re-fit of a sail cover if it was tight to begin with.

Partial Batten Pro's:

*Allows easier sail shape adjustment with sail controls

*Adds some life to the sail, over all partials

*Does not add as much batt car height

*Often goes up and down easier without the need for an $$ track system or fancy cars

Partial Batten Con's:

*Allows sail to flog the leech on the partials

*Shorter sail life than a full batten if you motor a lot with the sail up

*Still need to adjust the top two battens for wind conditions, but at least not four. I have my batten adjusters marked so with the sail flaked I can adjust for wind without unflaking the sail. This works well on the short top battens but never worked as well trying to do all four. The longer lowers needed less friction to do the right adjustment and it had to be done as the sail went up which often meant getting flogged while adjusting the battens.

*Does not flake as well

*Works less well with a stack pack system



For most cruisers I think the full batten sail makes more sense unless you like to "tweak" than a 2+2 can be good.....

Also you might consider two deep reefs as opposed to three..

[Maine_Buzzard]

Are you thinking of a loose footed main vs. a captured foot? The loose foot does move the load to the clew, which may be an issue if you have midboom sheeting.

I do like the loose foot, it makes the shaping so much easire to see...

[Gary H]

Amazing how much I don't know - so I will ask the dumb question:
How do you adjust battens?

[Maine Sail]

There are a number of different approaches to batten tensioning. Some attack the problem from the batt car/luff end with a screw the puts pressure on the batten or a strap system and other sail makers come at it from the leech end. The leech end Velcro ones are what I find to be the easiest but the Velcro does not hold up over the long term as non Velcro adjusters. Our current sail uses a leech end lacing system. Tightening the lace puts pressure & pre-bend on the batten to match the wind conditions. Sometimes battens are just cut wrong then you can't adjust them well. It also can take some time to find the right battens for your sail, if you're really picky. Some are even tapered..

Non full length battens are not adjustable...

Oh one more thing you may want to consider is adding a draft stripe on the sail. Makes it very easy to see draft depth / shape on bright days...

[Duncan]

I've had full battens before, but when I bought my new main a couple of years ago, most of the sailmakers recommended 2 full battens on top and 2 partial ones below.

That's what I got, and I am very happy with how I can shape the sail.
There's also a bit less weight aloft.

I don't think you can assume that battens add life to the sail - some long term cruisers use main sails with no battens (and no roach). They put a lot more time on their sails than we do, and they claim that this extends the useful life of their sails.

I like the 2 + 2 arrangement, and I put the money I saved into better cloth and better stitching.

[Clay Stalker]

I have had regular, full batten, and 2+2 over the years on my 3 boats. Liked the 2+2 best, seemed like the best of both worlds.

[DaveCD28]

I have a full battened main. I've never adjusted the battens, so maybe I'm losing 0.2kts. But I don't really care about that. Even without the adjustment she still sails pretty fast and I've won a couple races so it's good enough I think.

The sail is easier to furl on the boom I think since the battens let you control the leech while standing at the mast when brining the sail down, however since the battens are heavier than the sail material they tend to pull the sail down off the boom if draped too far over.

The main drawback, as mentioned in a previous post, is that when I tack I generally have to flip the topping lift over the roach as it hangs up on one of the upper battens, causing the top of the sail to be distorted until you flip the topping lift over.

I wonder if you could have a fully battened main with no roach? That would be cool.

[Warren Kaplan]

I've had a Doyle 2+2 for many years now and I like it! Its a loose footer. What else can I say. It seems to do everything I want in a mainsail and its holding up very well.

[tartansailor]

Sincerely appreciate all of the input. Based on the insight gained here we are now looking at a batten slide and cars, plus the main.
With the mast down, now is the time to instal the slide. Guess we should get rid of the topping lift and substitute a hydraulic vang. That just doubled the budget. but at my age every bit of strain relief is a big plus.
FWIW in my youth we campaigned a Lightning (12066) for many years,:) and am no stranger to tweaking, draft lines, polars, VMG etc. but those days are a distant memory.

[Frank Vernet]

Good article here. It brings up a couple of points not mentioned in the terrific comments above.

http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php

I had not considerd the loose-footed approach prior to reading this thread and may try it next season. It would be a simple matter of detaching the boom slugs from the foot when I put the main back on.