CD25 cutter?

[riveredge]

Has anyone ever added a bowsprit to a CD25 and moved the forestay forward? Seems like it might improve the balance. Could also increase sail area and even make a cutter rig possible.

[Bruce Dart]

Having owned a CD25 (the one with the outboard motor, not the CD25D), and sailed it in both light and moderate winds here in Southern California, I've got to say it balanced just fine as originally configured, although it certainly could use a roller reefing jib and jiffy reefing on the main. An asymmetrical spinnaker for light airs would be useful, too. I'd hesitate to make the changes you mentioned, though. They're possible, but I would think they'd be expensive, with no guarantee they would actually work. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Our CD25, Wings O' Morning, was (and I'm sure still is under her new owners) a sweet sailing boat, and one that inspired a lot of confidence, too. I'll bet yours is as well, and that you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of her on the water sailing her.

[tartansailor]

Balance? On the contrary putting another sail forward will tend to increase lee helm.
I'm slightly lee with a 150, and have to rake to compensate.
Now a bow sprite for your anchor would be cool.
Dick

[riveredge]

I've been happily sailing my CD25 since Spring when I bought her. My experience so far, and the observations of others in this forum, is that these boats are prone to weather helm. I've been able to balance it well on a reach in light breeze. But I've had problems balancing in 8-10 knots of wind when close hauled. I haven't yet felt lee helm (the tendency of the boat to turn away from the wind) Most of my sailing has been with a 150 genoa and the main full or with one reef on the few occasions the wind has piped up a bit.
A bowsprit for the anchor sounds like a good idea. Has anyone done that?

[Bruce Dart]

I agree with the observation about weather helm, but in my experience it tended to happen when we didn't reef soon enough. The boat definitely does not like to sail on her ear.

As to a bow sprit for the anchor, I've seen several similar sized boats fitted with an anchor roller, which would be simpler and cheaper.

[Duncan]

... I've had problems balancing in 8-10 knots of wind when close hauled...

That does sound like an issue.
I don't know if you've thought of these things, so please forgive me if you already have?

One basic thing to check on the geometry of the rig is mast rake. (Some boats sail well with the mast raked aft a bit, but it sounds as if yours should be straight up and down.) I check this by clipping a hefty wrench on the shackle of the main halyard. If it hangs straight, the mast is vertical. If it hangs aft, you can adjust by loosening the backstay and tightening the forestay.

Secondly, your big 150 could be the culprit, because a jib that comes back that far can move your center of effort aft. You could try flattening it out by moving the leads aft, or try a smaller jib.
This was surprising to me, but I went through it and ended up using a working jib instead. My 27 has less weather helm this way. It sails faster, heels less, and generally seems better-balanced.

Finally, probably obviously, you want to try depowering your main a bit (especially with an older, fuller sail), i.e. drop the traveller and tighten the mainsheet.

My money's on the 150 genoa being too big/too full, though.

[riveredge]

I appreciate your observations. Mast is straight. My main is brand new loose footed Sobstad. Very nice. My genoa is old and I've been thinking of replacing it. The boat came with a fairly new 110 jib but I haven't used it much because wind has been light. So I'll try and test the balance with it. I may replace the 150 with a 140 as well.
As I said I've enjoyed sailing my CD25 a lot. I'm not unhappy with it. Just thinking.

[Duncan]

I think we're zeroing in on this now, knowing that your main is new and your genoa is old, because this was the same situation I had.

My old genoa was, I guess, about a 120-130, blown out and impossible to shape properly. I recall it driving the boat (on its own, without the main) to 7.2 knots in about 10-12 knots of wind. Even with all that power in the genoa, there was no lee helm, and actually a bit of weather helm.

I've been sailing with the new main and a small blade jib (75-80%), and the boat balances nicely. I can tune the performance easily with the main, so it's sort of like sailing with a fractional rig. My plan for winds of less than 5 knots has been to use the nylon "flasher", but I haven't rigged it up yet.

I suspect that, like me, you'll be very happy with the 110, and may not see the need for a genoa at all.

I appreciate your observations. Mast is straight. My main is brand new loose footed Sobstad. Very nice. My genoa is old and I've been thinking of replacing it. The boat came with a fairly new 110 jib but I haven't used it much because wind has been light. So I'll try and test the balance with it. I may replace the 150 with a 140 as well.
As I said I've enjoyed sailing my CD25 a lot. I'm not unhappy with it. Just thinking.

[tjr818]

I've been sailing with the new main and a small blade jib (75-80%), and the boat balances nicely. I can tune the performance easily with the main, so it's sort of like sailing with a fractional rig. My plan for winds of less than 5 knots has been to use the nylon "flasher", but I haven't rigged it up yet.

I don't mean to hijack this string, but I have a new to me CD27 an I am very interested in your description. What is the difference between the working jib and the "small blade jib"?

[riveredge]

I'm looking forward to putting the 110 through some maneuvers. But I still want more canvas to drive the boat in light air. I'll post a photo of the shiny new bowsprit if I ever get around to building it. In the mean time, please play through Tim.

[tjr818]

Thanks Riveredge,
I'll be waiting for those pictures. That is a project I have been thinking about. The 27 does not have an anchor locker up front. I don' like the looks of a Danforth hanging off of the bow pulpit. I'd rather have a anchor roller up front. Teak would be my preference. I can do the woodwork.
Good luck with the weather helm. I am still fighting it.

[Duncan]

... What is the difference between the working jib and the "small blade jib"?

The small blade jib is shorter in the hoist, so it ends up about three feet short of the masthead. It's also high-cut along the foot, so the clew is around three feet above the deck.

I also have a normal working jib. There really isn't much difference between the two, except that the smaller blade is easier to sheet in flat on the inboard tracks.