CD28 - FINALLY "IN THE MARKET!"

[SeanReeves]

It's official, I'm getting transferred back to Chicago! I've been boat-saving for this day...and I'm officially "in the market" for a CD28! I thought I'd throw this question out to the group...

Is there a auto-alert function or RSS-type notification available on the CDSOA site that would send me an email whenever anyone posts a CD for sale?

I'd like to buy a lovingly cared for CD from a CDSOA member over buying straight from a broker. Anyone have any advice on best practices on how to find a CD for sale, short of checking the Buy/Sell board everyday?

Sincerely,

Sean Reeves
Soon to be living in Chicago, IL

[Duncan]

... Anyone have any advice on best practices on how to find a CD for sale, short of checking the Buy/Sell board everyday?...

Hi Sean - congratulations!

I think a Google Alert, slaved to this site, might work.
No guarantees, but I just checked this and it seemed to work ok:
Link to test search

1. Go to http://www.google.com/alerts/create

2. Paste cape dory 28 for sale site:capedory.org/board in the search box at the top of the page.

It will preview the results for you - if they look good, then you can put your email address into the form, pick your frequency (daily, weekly, etc.), and it should mail you results as they arrive.

Good luck!

[SeanReeves]

excellent suggestion - I'll try that now - thanks!

[azucha]

I still look at Sail Texas almost everyday just to see what is on the market in different parts of the country.

http://www.sailingtexas.com/cboats.html

[Neil Gordon]

Sean,

One of our members got quite involved and engaged on the message board while he was searching for his first Cape Dory. In effect, over time, he had the whole community out and about keeping their eyes open for suitable boats. It expands horizons way beyond those boats that might be directly listed for sale here.

Good luck with your search.

[SeanReeves]

Neil, et. al.,

That was my goal in posting my CD search on the CDSOA site.

Basically I'm asking/hoping that those who read my posting will keep me in mind when they see CDs in the marketplace and send me a message. Further, many CDSOA members have friends and/or acquaintances who have heard rumors of CDs soon-to-be on the market that may never get listed on the CDSOA site or a online brokerage site. Also, if other CDSOA members are like me, if there's a harbor within 20 miles, I'm in it, looking at boats. I've seen many boats for sale by owner that never hit the open market beyond the harbor.

I appreciate all of the responses that I've received thus far...please keep'em coming. I'm very serious about making a purchase. I prefer CDs that are Alberg designs 28' to 33'...so I guess that's the CD30, CD31, CD33.

Thanks everyone - I appreciate the extra pairs of eyes on the market. I look forward to joining the Great Lakes Fleet at the helm of my OWN Cape Dory.

Fair winds,

Sean Reeves

[Sea Hunt Video]

Sean,

One of our members got quite involved and engaged on the message board while he was searching for his first Cape Dory. In effect, over time, he had the whole community out and about keeping their eyes open for suitable boats. It expands horizons way beyond those boats that might be directly listed for sale here.

Care to name names

Sean:

Neil is spot on. When I initially joined this board in 2006 (moniker "Sea Hunt") I frequently posted asking if anyone knew of a Cape Dory 25D. After a lot of searching, I found a beautiful Cape Dory Typhoon Weekender as the result of an owner seeing my posts on this board.

While sailing my Ty I continued to search for a Cape Dory 25D. A very private owner happened to read one of my CDSOA posts and contacted me. I am now the very happy owner of an almost Bristol Cape Dory 25D that survived Hurricane Irene.

This board does not have an "auto alert" or similar - at least not that I am familiar with. I would just check the board every few days or every day or 3-4 times a day

YachtWorld.com lists 8-9 Cape Dory 28s on the market.

http://goo.gl/WfwwL

There are other websites to check including:

www.SailingTexas.com

www.Sailboatlistings.com (I sold my CD Ty Weekender on this website in 2 weeks )

www.Boattrader.com

Yachtworld is OK but it requires a broker to list on their website. They do generally have nice pictures (and a lot of them). Caution: when you talk with a broker make sure you ask him WHEN photos were taken and tell the broker you are relying on his photo representations in deciding whether to spend money to travel to look at this particular Cape Dory sailboat. Over the course of my many searches it was amazing how many brokers posted photos of a sailboat that were taken 4,5 or 7 or more years earlier. A lot can happen - especially if the sailboat is not used during that time.

[trapper]

I know nothing about this boat or her owner but here is one for your consideration:

http://capecod.craigslist.org/boa/2503736828.html

[SeanReeves]

Sea Hunt,

Thanks for the collected site list. I've been on all of them at one time or another but it's nice to have them all collected in one spot as you have done. Thank you. I think I'm just going to need to make a daily practice of looking for new CDs that hit the market. Hey...isn't finding the perfect CD at least as important as brushing you teeth everyday?

This may be taking the conversation a new direction BUT...

Once I find a boat that "looks" promising from the photos and the text in the listing...what then? I assume, call the owner/broker but what advice does the group have as it relates to "the most important" questions to ask before deciding to make the trek to where the boat is berthed for a closer inspection. Some of the boats I'm looking at, most in fact, are lying more than 1,000 miles away from Chicago (my home port). Can I ask for the marine survey? Do sellers get surveys performed prior to selling to "show good faith" in the boat they are selling? What can I ask? What should I ask...that will help me sort the "pretenders from contenders" before taking a couple of days off to go and look at a boat? Buyer beware...ya know.

I should probably add at this point, I know how to sail, have taught dinghy sailing lessons for years and I've read a ton of books and blogs, but I've never bought a boat, let alone a boat that is nearly my age (40). I just don't want to purchase a lemon when buying my first CD. You can cover some serious issues with cheap epoxy and pretty paint...if the person (me) doesn't know what they're looking for. Reading Don Casey is not the same thing as being Don Casey! When it comes time to make an offer...I'd get a professional pre-purchase survey conducted by a licensed marine surveyor but those folks are very expensive and don't want to pay for their services until I find a promising boat.

Any advice on the common sins of our beloved Cape Dory? Before making the journey to look at a boat, what should I ask to verify what has been listed about the boat? Is it possible to eliminate false-positives when boat hunting? I don't want to fly to Boston to look at a boat that is beautiful in photos, sounds great in the text...only to find out at "the five foot rule" is a floating hulk.

Thanks for the additional info.

I sincerely appreciate everyone's help.

Sean Reeves

[Sea Hunt Video]

Sadly, over the past 6-plus years I have inspected more than 32 Cape Dory sailboats including Typhoon Weekenders, CD 25Ds, CD 27s, CD 28s, and one CD 30. I am not particularly proud of this number (it is actually depressing) but it did help me to gain a feel for what a buyer should do.

A few suggestions on things to do:

1. Whether seller or broker, ask for recent photos. Make sure the seller/broker understands you are relying on the representation of the "age" of the photos.

2. Whether seller or broker, ask for copy of the marine survey the owner/seller commissioned when he bought the Cape Dory s/he is now selling. Note how old the survey is. Regardless of how old, it will have valuable information. Also ask for an inventory of items included with the sale of the sailboat - sail inventory, equipment, electronics, add-ons, etc.

3. Ask if the selling price is negotiable or "etched in stone"; i.e., is the seller flexible. It is fine for a seller to have a selling price that is "etched in stone" so long as s/he tells you this up front.

4. If you are satisfied with the above, then consider spending the money to travel to where the Cape Dory is located.

5. Have a standardized list of items you want to inspect. I made a 3-page "inspection chart" that I brought with me to every sailboat inspection. This helps to make sure you remember to look at everything you want to look at and have notes that you can review a week later.

6. Regardless of whether the seller/broker has provided pictures, take your own pictures. Take a lot of pictures. I am not computer literate so I always bought a disposable Kodak camera (27 shots) at a local supermarket.

7. If possible, and weather permitting, go for a brief sail. This is only possible if the owner is selling. If a broker is involved, s/he will say s/he has no authority to take her out. Probably true. I was only refused one time that I requested this. Turned out the owner/seller knew less about sailing than I did. And that is saying something because I know very, very little. The name "Tadpole sailor" is not an accident.

8. If, when, you make an offer, you will sign a purchase/sales agreement subject to certain things. There are several "samples" on the Internet websites. I used one from TrailerSailor.com.

9. Make sure any purchase/sales agreement has the following clauses to protect yourself:

Purchase is subject to a full marine survey, engine survey, sea trial, etc. all to be to the sole satisfaction of the buyer. You have to pay for your survey(s). Seller’s sole obligation is to make the sailboat available at an agreed marina for inspection, etc.

If marine survey, engine survey or sea trial are not to sole satisfaction of the buyer, seller fully refunds deposit.

10. Generally, a 10% deposit is given to the seller/broker when the contract is signed. If a broker is involved this generally becomes his commission if the deal goes through. Brokers are notorious for doing just about anything to keep their hands on that 10% commission. I tried to avoid brokers at all costs. They generally know very little about the sailboat they are selling and even less about Cape Dory sailboats. They do not voluntarily disclose issues with a sailboat. I am not a big fan of brokers. Never met one I liked. Conversely, of the many, many Cape Dory owners I have met over the past 6-plus years, there have been only two that were somewhat "disagreeable". Every other owner was a terrific, honest, decent, nice guy who was candid about his Cape Dory and any issues and was a real pleasure to meet and talk with. Several have become good friends even though I did not buy their Cape Dory sailboat. It is a really great (small but great) community of sailors.

11. Avoid agreeing to let the seller "fix" any repairs discovered during the survey(s), particularly if a broker is involved. If there are "issues" discovered, an agreed value for repair/replacement should be made and this amount deducted from the previously agreed selling price.

12. Resist the temptation to make an offer the same day you inspect. Before I bought my Ty Weekender, the seller called me up and basically said "come on over. We'll go sailing. Doesn't matter whether you want to buy or not." When I recently bought my CD 25D, the seller said "I'm going sailing; want to go " Both times, the sellers knew Cape Dory sailboats can be sort of like a drug. They get in your blood. As soon as you sail one, you want to buy. It happened to me. Still, you have to resist the temptation to make an offer the same day you look at her. If you fail in this you will join a long list of Cape Dory owners who have also failed - me included.

Random thoughts. I am sure some on this board will disagree with some of the above thoughts and many others posters will have better suggestions. As the saying goes, "it is a process."

Good luck

[Duncan]

...the collected site list. I've been on all of them at one time or another but it's nice to have them all collected in one spot...

This one picks up listings from eBay, Kijiji, and Boat Trader. - LINK.

It used to include Craigslist, too, but unfortunately now I see a notice that Craigslist made them stop. There are others that will search Craigslist, as you probably know, but I can't recommend any because I don't have any experience of them

...but what advice does the group have as it relates to "the most important" questions to ask...

I would say the most important issue is deck delamination from poorly bedded hardware, which is sort of a generic issue with Cape Dorys.

If the seller can't tell you that the hardware has been rebedded properly, I think the chances of a soft or wet deck are significant. My impression, from reading this Board, is that the cockpit sole is particularly vulnerable, as are the stanchion bases and the chainplates. The aft vents for the engine compartment are another place to check, too.

I would think that a wet/delaminated deck is a deal-killer, unless you want to take on the very big project of recoring and repainting.

Apart from that, I can't think of any issues that are specific to Cape Dorys. I do notice that people seem to place a lot of faith in old standing rigging - if it hasn't been redone in the last ten years or so, I'd want to build in a provision to replace it.

By the way, you might want to look at 27s, too, since they have a reputation for being better sailers. The interior is not quite as big as the 28s and the 30s, but it's still quite practical and livable.

[Sea Hunt Video]

In one of my earlier posts I referenced a Yachtworld.com website with Cape Dory 28s for sale.

Somehow I managed to copy the "very long" version of the website. It now makes it impossible to view complete posts (the right side is "cut off"). I assume this is not just on my 12 year old computer but I guess it is possible.

Any web/computer experts know how I can convert the "very long" version to a shorter version

Remember I am computer idiot and belong back in the 19th, possibly 18th, Century.

[MikeD]

This site is really cool - it lets you search multiple Craig's Lists at once: www.crazedlist.org

Also, you may want to consider taking a trip to Chicago near the end of the sailing season and spending some time at a few of the marinas. You could save a HUGE amount by buying a "local" boat.

...and don't let yourself get rushed or be in a hurry to buy a boat. This is a great time to be buying a boat, not selling one.

[Sea Hunt Video]

John B:

Thanks That is super cool I now know how to do 6 completely different things on a computer:

1. Send an email to someone

2. Open an email from someone

3. Delete an email

4. Open a website

5. Close a website

6. Shorten a website address. NEW

I am sooooooooo proud of myself. The sky is the limit. Soon I will be as computer savvy as my friend OJ.