Any experience with composting head systems?

[Joe Myerson]

Perhaps this topic has already been covered, but I was wondering if anybody on this board has used the Air Head or Nature Head composting marine toilets.

I'm in the process of repairing my Groco head--replacing the pump assembly, and I'm seriously contemplating getting rid of the cumbersome system, with its long tube that runs from the forward head compartment to the all-too-small holding tank beneath the engine.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

--Joe

[S/V Necessity]

* I have no direct personal experience with composting heads* However I've poked around quite a bit and it seems that quite a few people are very happy with them. Finally, I've gotten some feedback from a few people I trust (to assure against astroturfing) and it seems to be positive also. So... I have decided to go with a composting head. I just can't figure out if I'm going to get an Air Head or a Natures Head. I haven't yet found a solid comparison of the two that isn't tainted with manufactures spin.

My advice would be to buy both and tell me what you think when you get them

[Joe Myerson]

Necessity:

My advice would be to buy both and tell me what you think when you get them Wink

That's a great idea!

Seriously, the two systems seem to be very similar. Having met the inventor of the Air Head (years ago, when he was starting out) and watched the system evolve, I'm probably inclined to spend the extra $100 and go with his system.

However, there seems to be another option, if you've got the skill and self-confidence to do so. I posted this same question on another board, and got a response from a regular poster--a liveaboard--who built his own composting head for a little more than $100.

Here's a link to the thread:

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topi ... g26826#new

Bob's post also contains a link to Ecovita, a company not far from where I'm located that sells do-it-yourself urine-separation systems, as well as the Nature's Head system.

Perhaps you would buy one, and I could buy the other? Anyway, I wouldn't begin such a project while Creme Brulee's still afloat.

--Joe

[VegaIII]

Joe:

I have two friends and fellow sailors--one with a Joel White 35 foot ketch and the other with a 1968 Bristol 27. They both have composting heads (The Air Head) and I have cruised with both of them pretty extensively along the New England coast. I have been very impressed with the convenience and simplicity of the design. The aesthetic aspect at first struck me as a bit of a problem--but it really isn't--especially if you have ever had to repair the joker valve on a conventional head while underway or suffered any of the other indignities that goes along with marine heads.

I have a CD-27 and am seriously considering switching over at the end of the season. I'm tired of putting up with the holding tank, the leaky pump valve, and having to worry about two additional holes in the bottom of my boat.

If you'd like I could try and put you in touch with these fellows off-the bulletin board. I should probably ask them both first.

[tjr818]

Joe:

I have two friends and fellow sailors--one with a Joel White 35 foot ketch and the other with a 1968 Bristol 27. They both have composting heads (The Air Head) and I have cruised with both of them pretty extensively along the New England coast. I have been very impressed with the convenience and simplicity of the design. The aesthetic aspect at first struck me as a bit of a problem--but it really isn't--especially if you have ever had to repair the joker valve on a conventional head while underway or suffered any of the other indignities that goes along with marine heads.

I have a CD-27 and am seriously considering switching over at the end of the season. I'm tired of putting up with the holding tank, the leaky pump valve, and having to worry about two additional holes in the bottom of my boat.

If you'd like I could try and put you in touch with these fellows off-the bulletin board. I should probably ask them both first.

Did you ever proceed with the composting head? I have a CD27 and I have purchased the Air Head and am ready to install it. I just don't know where it is safe to drill a hole for the vent. I also purchased a 3" Nicro Solar Plus vent that I can use in the system to avoid battery drain, but again I am not sure where to cut that 3 3/4" hole.

[Joe Myerson]

tjr818:

I did make contact with several owners of the Air Head system, and they told me that they liked it. However, I never proceeded with trying to install one on my 25D.

One reason was the cost.

Another reason was the footprint: Since there's no V-berth in the 25D, it has a very large head compartment. However, the platform on which the head sits is very far forward, where the boat narrows into the bow. As far as I could determine, I would have had to build out that platform to accommodate an Air Head.

And, like you, I was hesitant about installing that vent.

Still, I detest the current head setup, which involves pumping waste through a line (underneath the port berth) to a holding tank beneath the engine.

Sorry I can't be more helpful. But please do keep us informed on how you're doing with your Air Head.

--Joe

[tjr818]

Joe,
I too was hesitant. The 27 has a small shelf where the head sits and the thru-hull for the flush water is almost in the middle of that shelf.
After a lot of measuring I felt I could fit the Airhead in the space, but not the Nature's Head. I like the appearance of the Nature's Head better than I do the Airhead, but the Nature's Head has an almost square bottom tank and that would not fit in the are I have. Try placing a 5 gallon bucket in the space you have. If that fits the Airhead should fit. The only problem with the Airhead is the height. The shelf on the 27 adds about 5 inches to an already tall seat. I am going to need to install a small foot rest/step stool for my shorter crew members.

[Joe Myerson]

By coincidence, there's an extensive article on installing and using the Air Head in this month's issue of Good Old Boat magazine. I haven't had a chance to read it, but it seems to be quite extensive.

--Joe

[SurryMark]

The first-hand or direct second-hand experiences listed here are useful. I would be careful to rely on those, and not on sales information. I have no boat composting head experience, but years ago I had a lot of experience installing and watching various kinds of house units, including ones with stirring paddles (read tangles of toilet paper) and which burned waste (read neighbors beware).. Sales promises were often theory, and there were a lot of oops events.Generally, composting takes heat, air, and time, and sometimes other ingredients, like earthworms. Heaters installed in Clivus Multrums to improve performance caused two or three fires that I know of.

New technology may have upped the odds for success. I'd be interested in info on amount-of-use:amount-of-time experience for the new units.

Also it's good to know what kind of product you're actually getting out. Is it real compost - that is, not poop?

Looking forward to more reports, and hope my skepticism is misplaced. If I wanted to sell something based on hope, it would be a replacement for marine heads.

[Joe Myerson]

Mark,

I lived in Central Maine (Skowhegan) some 30 years ago.

A number of "back-to-the-landers" and so-called hippies had settled in communities around the area, because half-abandoned farmland was cheap. Even though I was not one of them, having moved to Skowhegan to buy and operate the local weekly newspaper, I became friendly with some of these "out-of-staters." Many of them had installed composting toilet systems ("Clivus Multrum" was, I think, the brand).

When I visited friends with such systems, I was sorely disappointed with their performance.

But I've always been intrigued with composting marine toilets, because they held the promise of eliminating two holes in my boat, eliminating the need for pumpouts and taking care of a messy, complex system that had to be maintained and winterized.

I did contact several sailors who had installed the Air Head system, and they really liked them. But the system seemed somehow "too good to be true."

I had a chance to discuss composting heads with Dave Geer, the naval architect and director of Woodlawn Institute of Marine Technology. He was skeptical of the systems because of their limited capacity. ("They might be fine for a couple sailing on weekends, but what about if you have children aboard, or guests?" was the gist of his comment.)

The excellent article in GOB poses the same question. The author describes her entire experience with the Air Head, including problems getting it to start working, and suggests that it does have limitations for having more than two people aboard, or for cruising for long stretches at a time.

Right now I'm really intrigued with the idea of a composting marine head, but I'm still reluctant to invest the time and money to install one.

(Sorry for the long post, but Irene has not yet struck, and I've got some idle time at the keyboard.)

--Joe

[SurryMark]

M . . . Even though I was not one of them, having moved to Skowhegan to buy and operate the local weekly newspaper . . .

--Joe

OK Joe, here's a thread hijacker. If you haven't read "The Hard Way" by Alexander Brook, you might appreciate it. I had a daily paper attitude about weeklies, but Brook does such a charming job of recounting his time running weeklies in southern Maine that he bent my view of journalism.

Now back to toilets . . . and Irene.