Bilge Water

[Dick Kobayashi]

Well after ten years of ownership of Susan B and for most of that time having a minimal amount of water in the bilge, now I have have a full or quasi-full bilge most of the time when I return to the boat. Two probable sources, I think. The engine and deck leaks. How do I determine the source. Also how big a deal is it to install an electric bilge pump while the boat is in the water - any recommendations on equipment or installation are welcomed.

[Jerry Hammernik]

Dick,

I'm inclined to believe that the likely cause is the shaft packing. If you look at the area of the packing with a flashlight you should be able to see at what rate the packing is dripping. You can probably adjust it to slow the leak down. It is a wear item that needs adjusting. If you have never repacked the shaft you may want to do that at haul out time. You probably can adjust it to get you through the season.

Installing an electric bilge pump can be done in the water, but that is just masking the symptom. Better to adjust the packing to slow the water inflow and add the pump as a backup.

If you have a dripless packing, "Never mind".

[Oswego John]

Two probable sources, I think. The engine and deck leaks. How do I determine the source.

Hi Dick,

I never noticed your boat's name before, Susan B. Just want to say that there is a lady captain near Oswego whose boat, a Tancook schooner, is also called Susan B.

As for leaks, it very well could be caused by the shaft seal. Check it with the engine off and with it running in gear.

For deck and hardware leaks, I mix food coloring to water and pour it over suspected area. Use different colors in different locations.

Go below and look for color traces.

Good luck,
O J

[Joe Myerson]

Hi Dick,

I used to get a lot of water in the bilge, especially when I ran the engine.

Much of it came from the shaft packing. But another source of leakage, which became worse as the years went on, was a slow drip around the shaft seal of my 1GM's (raw) water pump.

I ignored it, eventually causing my oil delivery tubes to rust out.

So, give it a check, just to make sure that isn't the source of your leak.

--Joe

[JWSutcliffe]

Taste it - if its salty its a shaft packing or raw water circuit leak. If fresh itsrainwater or icebox melt.

[Dick Kobayashi]

Thanks guys, for the information already provided. I checked this PM and after I completely drained the pan under the engine with a sponge. I started the engine and then observed the pan filling up. I looked under the engine and at the rear of the engine I observed a pretty steady drip. I turned off the engine and noticed that the drip continued, but I didn't have enough time to let the engine get cold and ten see if I had a drip. Two questions
1) Will the packing drip when the engine is not operated (cold)
2) Exactly how do you adjust the packing nut (apparatus). Do you need to go through the port side cockpit locker and what tool(s)?

And a special question for Joe, I think that my Whale bilge pump is shot - mostly sucking air, it seems. Advice on in water work around/replacement?

[Joe Myerson]

And a special question for Joe, I think that my Whale bilge pump is shot - mostly sucking air, it seems. Advice on in water work around/replacement?

Dick,

I rebuilt my Whale manual bilge pump a number of years ago. I ordered a kit from Defender and discovered that the whole pump was filthy inside and out, so I took it all apart, washed it in warm soapy water, scrubbed it and replaced all the replaceable parts.

I did all this work while the boat was on the hard, but there's no reason it can't be done in the water. However YOU WILL NEED A SECOND PERSON to help you thread the bolts back into place.

The information on the pump model is, unfortunately, on the boat right now.

Also to note: my Whale bilge pump never sucks all the water out. For that I have to use either my trusty "Thirsty Mate" hand pump or, most effective, a bailing sponge and a long stretch.

Hope this helps.

--Joe

[Dick Kobayashi]

Joe, I assume you have one of the longer TM pumps with a long hose to get water from the bilge to the cockpit. Any particular model. I take it you fine the TM superior to the std WM product.

Based on the CD 25D manual the Whale Gusher 8 was the pump installed and I will order the kit. But before I install I will see if there is suction on the hose end in the bilge. I realize I may have a split, perforated or perforated suction hose.

This step plus an effort at tightening the packing nut will be my first steps.

Thanks for the support, btw I was almost in your neighborhood on Friday - gunkholing Wild Harbor for several hours around dead low tide. A pretty place indeed.

[trapper]

Hi Dick,

I hope the stuffing box is you problem. It has taken me a while to chase down all of Saga's leaks, but I have finally done it.

Saga not only had stuffing box problems, she also needed a new cutlass bearing. So when the stuffing was fixed, the problem was not. The cutlass bearing has to be done when you haul out.

When I first got Saga, the old whale worked fine but looked bad. She had an electric bilge that packed up after about 12 hours of pumping gunk out of her bilge. We went right to West Marine and purchased a new rule off the shelf. It was too large to get way down in the narrow, deep bilge of the 25D so we pulled it and got the smallest rule. It has worked great.

Joe has great patients. He told me about the replacement kit for the whale gusher but when I pulled mine it was so dirty--I could not clean it so I went ahead and purchased a new one. My brother now uses the old one in his race boat. Neither the whale nor the rule get Saga totally dry.

The only water she gets now is from the air conditioning and the ice box. I pump her out when I leave and she is dry when I return, finally! Good luck with yours.

[RIKanaka]

Hi Dick,

I never noticed your boat's name before, Susan B. Just want to say that there is a lady captain near Oswego whose boat, a Tancook schooner, is also called Susan B.

I would have gone with Kobayashi Maru but I'm a bit of a Trekkie.

[Dick Kobayashi]

the name of the hard drive on my MAC. Susan B is my wife's name. I am sure you understand, if you have or have had a wife or girlfriend.

[RIKanaka]

Yup.

[Joe Myerson]

Dick,

Yes, the pump is the Whale Gusher 8.

My Thirsty Mate is longer than the basic model, and the PO extended the hose.

Still, I have to be careful to lift the pump and tip it upside down to get all the water out. The sponge, though much less comfortable, is the best way of getting that bilge close to bone dry.

Fran: It was as much boredom as patience. I pulled the pump off the boat after haul-out (in early November), and found myself indoors on Cape Cod during a cold, rainy November weekend with very little to do. So I thought I'd try cleaning and rebuilding the pump.

I would probably not do it again--but it can be done.

--Joe

[Steve Laume]

The Gusher 8 on Raven needed rebuilding a few years ago as the little flapper valve was not sealing properly. At that time I had difficulty finding the rebuild kit so I replaced it with a Gusher 10. The ten is a serious pump.

This spring it would not draw and it didn't seem like it should have had any problems so soon. I took it home and found that it was just gunked up with some nastiness. I gave it a very though cleaning and sprayed the interior and all of the rubber parts with silicon. It is now working like a champ again.

The moral here is that it doesn't take much to effect the flapper inside the pump and just a cleaning may solve the problem. If the pump is original it would be better to replace the rubber parts that are now getting on in age, Steve.

[Dick Kobayashi]

Thanks for all the excellent and insightful information. Here's where we are now. 1) I had the yard tighten the packing nut - no excess flow now. I will repack when the boat is on shore. 2) I ordered and received the rebuild kit for the Gusher 8 but don't plan a rebuild until Susan B is on the hard, 3) well what to do if I need to pump? I set up a washdown pump that I bought several years ago with appropriate fittings to a) connect to my power outlet and b)hoses of appropriate length to pump out the bilge. The pump, wires and hoses all reside in a bucket stored in the head area. I have a back up portable manual pump too. But it is awkard to use.

Best advice: fix the problem, don't treat the symptom.