Third reef in mainsail

[Tom Keevil]

We put a third reef in our main, but have never used it. On the other hand, we never sail longer than overnight, and if the weather looks that bad we wait for it to improve. Just the same, it is reassuring to have it there if needed.

I think you're worrying a bit too much about the strenghth of screws holding the cheek block to the boom. It is a shearing force trying to break the screws, not a force that's pulling the screws out. I expect that all of the cleats, winches, padeyes and blocks on your boom and mast are screwed in, not bolted. A safety line through the clew might be a good idea, but I wouldn't loosen the reefing line; even an inch or two will produce undesired sag in your sail.

[Como No Cruising]

Dean: Before leaving on our cruising adventure we had a new main built and despite our sailmaker's objections we had 3 reefs put in. The third reef takes approximately 50-60 % out of the sail. Now, bear in mind that we were doing a lot of ocean sailing. It would have been near impossible to add a trysail track to our Norseman mast. Suffice to say that the 3 reef saw lots of use in our 13 years of offshore cruising. That and our stout staysail kept us going to windward in 30-35 knots of wind. We were hailed once by a helicopter and asked if we were O.K. They reported winds at close to and slightly more than 40 knots. We were fine--not comfortable, but safe with all sail reduced.

Our third reef turning block is held in place with drilled and tapped machine screws. No problems. We use a reefing hook at the tack.

IMHO you are on the right track. And, we never slack off on the reefing line. Tie in a security line if you wish.

Happy sails to you.
The Captain and Admiral of Como No

[Warren Kaplan]

My main has two reefs, but I don't use the first reef any more. By the time the word "reef" crosses my mind as the wind builds, the first reef is insufficient. I always go directly to the second reef. If I were planning a voyage soon, I would do the same and have a third reef sewn into the main. Then I would only rig reefs 2 and 3. A little more hardware to add to the boom, but no additional tangle of reefing clew lines.

If I ever get a new main, I would have three, but the first reef would be deeper, and I would have to give some thought to the %ages for numbers 2 and 3.

Bill,

I do the same as you. I almost always go right to reef #2. Reef #1 is almost superfluous and I find with #2 in my CD27 sails at hull speed, on her feet and sometimes with a better balanced helm then under normal sailing conditions with no reef. So if I think I need to put in a reef I go directly to reef #2.

[Paul D.]

Joe,

Do you know how much higher that third reef is on the 33 you sailed? I have found myself on Lake Superior more than once wishing for a third reef. Sailing in 40-45 knots one time, I thought a gale sail and third reef would have served well. While my main is old, I thought it would be a good project to try out before I sew up a new one eventually.

Thanks, good thread here.

[drysuit2]

My sailmaker refused to put a third reef in my main. He said the extra sailcloth and grommets involved would screw up my Main's light air performance. I would add too much "stuff" [weight, hardware, etc...] up high, where I don't want it. And would not let the leach open up properly in light air.

He recommended I just hoist an old storm jib in place of the main.

I could go the whole nine yards and change the luff/ foot angle of my old storm jib to 90 degrees; and replace the Luff hanks with mast slides...but I use it so rarely. Instead, I just clip the luff hainks to some spare luff slides I had around.

I don't know what your sail inventory looks like? But it may save you a few bucks, and not mess with you nice looking main.

[GeorgeV]

On my CD33 the 3rd reef is roughly 23' 4" from the head to the tack (the luff) and roughly 9' 8" from the tack to the clew (the foot) making it roughly 115 sqft. or about 33% of the full main of 350 sqft. I have not noticed an appreciable loss of power or undue changes in sail shape due to having a 3rd reef in my main even with "all" of its hardware (about 28' of line) attached.

If you are going to recut a storm sail to avoid putting a third reef in to the main you are in essence creating a storm tri sail. As such should be affixed to the mast on its own track. You should not be required you to take your main off to reduce sail. Removing the main to put on a storm sail on I my mind could be very dangerous, as when you need to shorten sail the boat is not at the dock and the conditions will be wet and wild.

Reefing should always be simple and as uncomplicated as possible if it is to be used properly and safely. I believe that a third reef really is only necessary if your going to be sailing 30 or more miles off shore on a regular basis and that it is over kill for the day sailor.

Besure to use your traveler when the wind pips buring your rail justs makes your boat go slower, you will generally sail faster in a flatter boat and your crew will appreciate your sailing skills much more.

BTW: If your main is older than 10 years you should consider replacing it. You will be amazed at the change it makes in how your boat handles and your ability to sail it to weather.

[John Vigor]

Reefing should always be simple and as uncomplicated as possible if it is to be used properly and safely. I believe that a third reef really is only necessary if your going to be sailing 30 or more miles off shore on a regular basis and that it is over kill for the day sailor.

An interesting observation. Is there some reason for the 30-mile limit? I'd love to know the rationale.

Cheers,

John V.

[Greg Kozlowski]

We put a third reef in the main after a boisterous downwind night sail down the Chesapeake from Annapolis to Norfolk in which all of the aluminum sail lugs above the second reef fractured.

Like Comono Cruising we have used and continue to use the third reef quite regularly, especially these days when we cruise in the often quite strong Meltemi summer wind in the Aegean.

Sherpa is also equipped with a trysail, and I have used that as well on the Atlantic crossing a couple times when strong gales were forcasted well in advance. IMHO the main advantage of using a trysail in gale conditions in the open opcean is that with the boom well secured in the boom gallows, center ship, our CD36 becomes much more stable in big rollers and tends to remain more upright as they pass.

For ocean sailing, I recommend both, a third reef and a dedicated trysail which is useful in really heavy going and can always act as your back up should your main self destruct.

Greg Kozlowski

[GeorgeV]

John,

I used the 30 mile range more to separate coastal cruising from off shore sailing it certainly isn’t a hard and fast rule.

I believe that most life raft companies use up to 20 miles for coastal and 20+ miles for offshore so maybe I should have used 20 miles off shore in my discussions. My point is coastal cruisers and day sailors have more options than off shore sailors do as to either to sail that day or not, given weather forecasts and how far away a safe harbor might be.

Off shore sailors have fewer options as to what to do if bad weather approaches then coastal sailors and therefore they need to prepare there boats for more contingencies.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this subject being been both a off shore sailor and one you now does mostly coastal cruising.

Regards

[Greg Kozlowski]

between coastal cursing and off-shore cursing.

Engine work cursing... now, that's a level of cursing that will put fear into children and little dogs.

[MFC]

IMHO the main advantage of using a trysail in gale conditions in the open opcean is that with the boom well secured in the boom gallows, center ship, our CD36 becomes much more stable in big rollers and tends to remain more upright as they pass.

Greg Kozlowski

Greg -
Did you build the boom gallows on Sherpa (yours is one of my alltime fav boat names btw)? I've been on a couple of 36's but don't recall a fixed seat for the boom on any of them. Is the main purpose of the gallows simply to permit flying a trysail? TIA
Matt

[John Vigor]

GeorgeV,

I had a third reef built into my mainsail especially for rounding the Cape. Never used it. Weathered seven gales without using it.

My experience was that when it's blowing too hard for a second reef, the building seas are not going to let you make way to windward. My idea for the third reef was that using it alone would keep the bow slightly turned into oncoming waves. In other word it would substitute for a main stormsail.

But the center of effort moves so far forward by the time your mainsail is reefed to the third position that it cannot swing the stern downwind so that the bows are pointing (vaguely) into oncoming waves. That is the particular function of a stormsail -- it gets its area far aft to accomplish that job, which is basically a nice stable hove-to position, perhaps making a little headway but mainly drifting slowly sideways.

With a third reef there is also the question of how much power it actually produces. We know that the force on the sail increases as a square of the windspeed, but that force also increases in the same way on every bit of boat above the waterline: cabintop, mast, boom, standing rigging, running rigging, barbecue etc. So although your third-reefed main is providing a little drive, the rest of the windage is sending you directly downwind.

So the answer for me,after it got too windy for a doubled-reefed main and a storm jib, was simply to lie a-hull if I didn't want to drift to leeward too fast, or to run off under storm jib only if it was a fair gale.

My boat then was a 30-foot full-keeler, cut away forward. But we adopted the same tactic on another occasion on a 33-foot canoe-body fin keeler and came through a blow that sank a nearby oil-rig's attendant tug.

My preference, therefore, is for two extra-large mainsail reefs, rather than three. In winds up to 30 knots my full-keeler would heave to very nicely under a double-reefed main only, facing slightly into the waves with the helm lashed to leeward and forging ahead very slowly.

But, unfortunately, all boats are different and all circumstances are different. You simply have to know what others have done before you, and experiment to find out the best solution for your own boat at that time.

Cheers,

John V.

[MFC]

I thought some of you might be interested in knowing that there is an extensive discussion of the "3 reefs or 2 deep reefs" question going on at CruisersForum. Discussion there can be hit or miss, but some of the more informed (and civil) posters there have taken the issue up. Anyway . . . I found it to be interesting and informative.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f11 ... post610492

Hey John V, is you avitar doing a perpetual M.O.B. drill? What's going on there?

Matt

[M. R. Bober]

We have made it habit to always make the last step of reefing the main to be adding a sail tie through the clew and around the boom a couple times. We do this to a) ease some of the load off the reef line and b) be there in case the reef line or reef block (or the cleat on the boom) decides to break.

I see it as cheap insurance for the main. I've heard of cases where the reef line went loose and the main tearing straight down the row of reef points. The individual reef points aren't designed to support the load of the sail, and will fail like dominoes if a tear starts at the clew.

Granted, this is a carry over from sailing much bigger (50-60') race boats, but I figure it couldn't hurt. It's not like I don't have sail ties around.

I, too, secure a line (usually a nylon webbing sail tie) through the reefed clew and around the boom. IMHO with jiffy reefing, the boom mounted cheek block(s) provide something of an outhaul effect, which allows the clew to move vertically. The sail tie around the boom keeps the clew down (i.e. in place) where it belongs.

It may not be required, but not worrying about a reef being blown out is a comfort.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Lancaster, (where you can shake out a reef, but sometimes you can shake while putting in that reef) VA

[John Vigor]

Hey John V, is you avitar doing a perpetual M.O.B. drill? What's going on there?

Matt

Hey Matt:

I hadn't thought of that. It certainly does look like the MOB drill used by ASA instructors.

On the other hand, it might be trying to show people how properly to write the figure 8. Have you noticed how many people make a figure 8 by balancing two separate circles, one on top of the other? I did a whole feature article on that for the San Diego Union at the beginning of the year 1988, and it's amazing how many people just can't make an 8 without taking the pen off the paper.

Actually, though, it's just a baby cockroach looking for a way out of your monitor. Sooner or later it will break free and find its way to your kitchen.

Good luck,

John V.