A repower for Arianna?

[seadog6532]

Arianna "CD30K #112" and crew have been cruising full time since November 10th. We are currently sitting in a marina in Lemon bay Fl. waiting on parts again for our Volvo MD7A. Parts are getting harder to find and it gets expensive having to wait in a marina. We're starting to think we may need to return home and repower and try again later. We are interested in any repower info for a CD30. I'm hearing good things about the Beta 20.
Thanks for any input.

We also can't find enough good things to say about Royal Palm Marina in Lemon Bay Fl. A great bunch of people. If you have to break down you should try to do it in paradise

[Ben Thomas]

Don't overlook the Beta 16. I have helped several folks with 30's on the board repower with the Beta's. Send me a PM for more info.
Ben

[rorik]

If you're already looking at Beta's, take a look at Nanni. They are the OEM install for several boat manufacturers.... and all the engines are based on either Kubota or Toyota blocks. After looking at Beta and Nanni, I bought a Nanni.
www.nannidiesel.com

[moctrams]

I repowered Gabbiano with the Beta 20hp and could not be happier. I bought the Beta from Ben Thomas and received the CDSOA discount which almost paid for the V'Drive. Ben furnished new SS engine beds and the Marina guys told me that with Ben's detailed instructions, "it was the easiest install we have done".

[gates_cliff]

This thread and my intellectual pursuit of finding ways to spend my meagre savings got me to thinking about repowering Katie Girl. I've been impressed with the comments about a Beta Marine 14 and started doing some research. I found that I can buy one from the distributor in NC for somewhere between 6,000 and 6,500. Hmm, not that bad me things. So I start calling around to find out what it might cost to have it installed. One place right near where my boat is berthed I got a quote for about 50 hours of labor at $90 and hour! So that's $4500!!!!! Is $90 an hour for a mechanic reasonable? Next, is 50 hours a reasonable estimate of the time it would take. Even though I don't have the experience to do it, I'd love to try after reading many accounts of guys repowering their own boat. But, I simply don't have the time and doubt I'd save much money after all is said and done.

Anyway, that's over $10,000 for a repower. Not quite as attractive.

[MFC]

Cliff -

I got estimates between $9-12K for a repower of a 33 with a beta or a westerbeke (24-28hp). Figure $6 - 6,500 of that was for the power train including a new shaft and the rest was labor. The amount of labor depended largely on how the existing stringers matched up with the new mounts and how the stern tube was / wasn't aligned. Ultimately, I bought a different boat. I also recall a couple of places in FL that were willing to allow you to do some of the grunt work labor in order to save some. I thought that idea was pretty attractive -- not so much to save a couple bucks but to allow you time to clean / paint / reorganize while the repower was taking place.

90/hr seems pretty standard for either highly skilled or "yard supervised" labor (I say "yard supervised" with great appreciation of the irony). Plan on camping out at the yard. There are certainly guys who you can hire to do the work for less either "on their own" or "on the side" but the success of that sort of endeavor will have a lot to do with your ability to pick the right person and supervise throughout (and probably a bit of luck).

Hope some of that is helpful. There is a good bit about repowering in the board archives and much more around the web (including time / labor required / incidentals often overlooked and budgets)

To the OP --
If I were in your shoes, I'd do everything possible to keep the cruise going while the window of opportunity is there . . . you never know what will interrupt future plans -- fix (or repower) the boat in paradise . . . at least you're in paradise!

Luck,
Matt

[sgbernd]

First, I have no doubt the Beta will make you very happy and it is what I will use when the time comes. However, your old one may have some life in it yet.

I pulled my MD7B a bit over a year ago, planning to replace it but when I opened it up, found it in better shape than I had anticipated. I cleaned out the rust, replaced the broken stud, ground the valves, rebuilt the injectors, replaced lots of little stuff, (mounts, seals, sender units, muffler leak, indicator lights on control panel, etc.) and put it back in. It has run perfectly since, has no water/.fuel/oil leaks, and starts right up every time. These are nice engines to work on and quite robust.

I recommend you pull the engine out, open it up, and make the evaluation. Make a list of everything you see that needs work or replacement and then price the repair. If it is just a bunch of little stuff, like water pumps, mounts, fuel pump, clean out the rust and scale, etc., then maybe you can get a few more years out of it. If there is big stuff or the cost is a substantial fraction of the new engine, it is time to replace. But make the decision after you know what is wrong with the old one.

[gates_cliff]

MFC and sgbernd, great advice and I think I'll look into that. I already had planned to have a mechanic take a look at the old one to get an opinion anyway.

[Jim Davis]

If it is just a bunch of little stuff, like water pumps, mounts, fuel pump, clean out the rust and scale, etc., then maybe you can get a few more years out of it. If there is big stuff or the cost is a substantial fraction of the new engine, it is time to replace. But make the decision after you know what is wrong with the old one.

Very good and valid points. This should almost always be the first step, unless the old engine clearly told you it was beyond financially repairing. Sometimes they will tell you.

As to the labor, 90 hours sounds reasonable for a good mechanic. I've done several repowers and put a lot more time than that in the job. Unless the new engine drops right on the old beds it is real labor intensive and messy while working in a cramped space.

Perhaps Andy Denmark will chime in on this.

[Andy Denmark]

Well, I've overseen a few repowering projects and they are all different. That's not much help, I know, but the bottom line is how much of the significant (important choice of words) you are willing and/or capable of doing.

At the local watering hole just tonight I heard that Nanni is out of business and their parts are already expensive and difficult to find.so the local mechanics tell me. To me, that takes Nanni out of the running.

That leaves Yanmar, Westerbeke and BetaMarine as primary choices. All are good, reliable powerplants. I chose the Beta for Rhiannon because the National distributor is ten miles from me and is a savvy and knowledgeable guy with years of experience. As for the engine, the service points on the Beta are very convenient because they are all on the front of the engine and easily accessible. Of course, with a vee-drive the opposite will be the case.

I sold the original Westerbeke 13 in Rhiannon in excellent condition with about 1200 hrs on her. The engine ran fine and never had a serious problem but I simply couldn't check the oil any more or service anything on the back side of the engine. No problems with the engine but with knees and lower back problems taking proper care of the engine became impossible. (I have willed my body to the US Navy so they can make a nuclear submarine from my prostheses when I expire).

MFC, I can't see how those numbers work when the wholesale on those engines is more than the overall number you quoted. Someone must have really been hungry! The $6,000-6,500 figure for the mounts/power train/exhaust/linkage stuff seems about right but the engine cost alone is almost double that now. Just saying ...... maybe those numbers are from a long time ago.

I may be a bit off topic here as I've just skimmed this thread while dinner is cooking. Maybe something of what I've said here is relevant. Let me eat and get a glass of wine and I'll come back later to see where this has gone.
________
Buy silver surfer

[MFC]

MFC, I can't see how those numbers work when the wholesale on those engines is more than the overall number you quoted. Someone must have really been hungry! The $6,000-6,500 figure for the mounts/power train/exhaust/linkage stuff seems about right but the engine cost alone is almost double that now. Just saying ...... maybe those numbers are from a long time ago.

Andy -
I just dug out my old emails. The quote on the Beta was, indeed, higher. He quoted $6800 on the 25hp and suggested between $2-4000 for the labor and another 1500 for parts (including shaft). I guess that adds up to 10300 to 123000. This is from summer 2008. I have no idea of cost increases since then (and no interest other than passing along info to fellow CD'ers).
Matt

[Andy Denmark]

Mark,

Here's some information that may be redundant but may be good for future use.

Try Vosbury Marine in Annapolis, MD, (410-757-3844 or 800-427-3451) for Volvo engine expertise and even some custom-engineered parts kits for problem areas, (such as the copper cooling tube stuff) . I know Bill Watson aboard Kittiwake uses Vosbury and swears by them after 6 or so ICW trips between the Chesapeake and Marathon Key --- over 1,200 miles each way, mostly motoring. He piles lots of hours on Kittiwake's MD-7A and it seems to keep on going although not without an occasional problem.

I agree with Ben that the Beta 16 is the correct engine. With the 30/K the mizzen compression post prohibits anything any longer without some extensive mount problems. You might want to chat with Stanley at Beta in Arapahoe, NC to see what he might suggest. I know of one other 30/K here with a Beta 14 and she seems to be sufficiently powered for the prop she swings (aperture size is a limitation on the < 30 ft Cape Dories).

I am pleased with my Beta. She runs smoothly and quietly for a 2-cylinder engine --- moreso than the Westy 13. All my regular crew notice the difference right away without my pointing it out. I have power to spare (torque curve is slightly better) and the boat seems to punch through waves nicely whereas before (Westy) she didn't seem to have the ass to do that so well. Yeah, subjective but nonetheless noticeable on a boat I've owned for 27 years.

90 hrs is not an unreasonable estimate for a DIY or first time job. I believe the yard that did most of my installation could complete it in a 40 hr week with no problem now as there's not nearly so much head scratching, measurement and fitting up. I did a lot of the hooking up part myself and running new exhaust, installing a new waterlock, control panel, linkage, etc. On top of all that I made a proper engine compartment with sound insulation, vent fan, light and even a 115 VAC duplex outlet tied into the shore power system.

IMO, the decision point with the MD7/A is when the cones in the tranny give up. These are almost impossible to find as they are a matched pair and the place that wears out is impossible to repair.

Hope all this helps get you going ...........
________
312b

[gates_cliff]

When I bought my boat a couple of years ago it was at the Hinckley yard in Annapolis and I had Vosbury marine dewinterize the engine. Part of the prepurchase survey had indicated it needed a new fuel tank and the bulkhead that is over the tank had come loose. So I got a new tank, installed it, ran new fuil lines, and reglassed the bulkhead. I asked Vosbury marine to check out the work, when they were dewinterizing, to make sure it was done right. I didn't think it would be a problem because all I did was replace everything exactly as it was. Well, when I talked to them afterwards, they offered me a job! I had to laugh because they have no idea how long it took me, and how many times I put the tank in and took it back out to make sure it fit right, etc, etc. In order to make any money off me as an employee they'd probably only be able to pay me about $.50/hour! And, i didn't relish being contorted in the port locker like that. I am in no way a mechanic or a skilled fiberglass tech, have done a fair amount of repairs on other boats though.

This is all a long post to echo Andy's comments about knees and back. As some comdian said, "if I had known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself".

I think I'll have the engine evaluated and see what they say!

Thanks to all for the excellent advice.

[The Patriot]

... Try Vosbury Marine in Annapolis, MD, (410-757-3844 or 800-427-3451) for Volvo engine expertise and even some custom-engineered parts kits for problem areas ... Bill Watson aboard Kittiwake uses Vosbury and swears by them after 6 or so ICW trips between the Chesapeake and Marathon Key --- over 1,200 miles each way, mostly motoring ...

I've known Richard Vosbury since 1993, when he replaced the original MD7A in my CD28 with a Volvo 2002. Simply put, if you want absolutely no nonsense expert advice on anything that's Volvo related, Richard is the one. The entire family is legendary on the Bay, Richard's dad having been the leading Atomic Four expert in his time. By now Richard's son is in the business, as is his brother. I would not be surprised to learn that his old dog pulls guard duty at the shop after hours. You cannot go wrong with Vosbury.

[moctrams]

After a lot of thought I decided to replace the 27 year old Volvo Md7A after coming back from St. Mary’s and the engine developed an oil leak right behind the big fly-wheel. Just two years prior, I had the engine pulled and reworked by a local mechanic. Guess what? He replaced all of the seals “exceptâ€