Need Autopilot Recommendations (and warnings)

[Evergreen]

We are considering the installation of a below deck autopilot on our CD36.

Do you have an autopilot?
If so, what brand do you have?
Are you satisfied with the product?
Are you satisfied with it's after the sale product support?

Do you have any recommendations?
We are equally interested in any warnings or bad experiences that you may have had.

We thank you in advance for any information that you can provide to make this decision making process easier.

[Jim Davis]

None

[Russell]

I am on my second autopilot.

My boat came with a Cetrek hydrolic AP. It worked well, but was power hungrey. It finally died and the company was out of buisness so no repairs or spare parts, time to change.

I changed to a raymarine X-10/ST70/Linier drive setup. Figuring I only use it when motoring ( I have a monitor windvane for sailing) that a linear drive would do fine. Never again! For offshore sailing on a boat with an unbalanced rudded I am now convinced a hydrolic drive is the only thing suitable. Even though I only use my AP when motoring, that includes situations like 6 to 8 foot following seas with less then 10 knots of wind dead downwind (ie, motoring and rolling, and a LOT of work for the AP). Within my first year of owning the raymarine, the linear drive had to go back to the factory 2 times for repair. It was covered under warrenty and free, but having the AP die while singlehanding on a multiday passage due to not being up to the task is more important to me then free warrenty repairs. At this time the drive has been back a total of 3 times and the AP computer back one time.

I cant afford to change to a hydrolic setup at this point, so I deal with the limitations of the linear drive and just baby it. But if starting fresh I would never go the linear drive route.

Given my experiences, I would probably, if buying a new AP today, buy a WH AP. Basicly "stupid" old technology, draws an insane amount of power, but build solid and foolproof and WORKS. For me though, since its primary for motoring, the power isnt an issue. If you are looking for passagemaking AP, then a windvane is the way to go anyway, same price for a proper offshore AP and MUCH more reliable and steers the boat MUCH better.

[Russell]

By the way, WH Autopilots, that I mentioned:

http://www.whautopilots.com/

[Steve Laume]

I would second the windvane over an autopilot. Having both is definitly the best set up. If I could only have one I would chose the vane any day.

Raven came with a wheel pilot and it worked okay on an on and off basis. I added a Monitor and it is the best! Many people seem to think of a windvane, strictly as offshore steering gear. I set mine up all the time no matter where I am sailing. If there is enough wind to sail, there is enough to self steer.

It works for motoring sometimes if there is enough wind but that would be when the autopilot comes into it's own.

I went all last season without the autopilot and didn't miss it too much, Steve.

[bottomscraper]

We installed a Raymarine S2G (no longer made) core pack with an
ST6002 control head and an electric linear drive a few years ago.
So far it has worked fine but since we do coastal cruising we
probably don't push it as hard or as long as Russell. We do
use it both motoring and sailing and truth be told very seldom
steer by hand. It is interfaced with our Garmin chart plotter
and the Raymarine wind instruments so we can steer either by
magnetic heading, gps waypoint or relative wind. We use the
magnetic heading most of the time. Relative wind is fun to play
with but we don't use it often. Steering to a waypoint works ok if
you set the way point as a destination and set up the AP to head
that way right away. If you wait it will try to first try get you back
on the "track" rather than steer directly to the waypoint. I guess
this is a "feature" to keep you out of trouble but I find it odd.

Our boat came with an older Autohelm AH6000 (pre Raymarine).
The new linear drive and the old Autohelm drive appear to be
identical and both work with the new computer, so we have a
spare. We called the old AH6000" Drunken Otto", it did a lot of
weaving back and forth and would once in a while take off in a
random direction. The new one is much, much better, and uses
much less power.

[boogie]

I installed Raymarine S3G core pack with an ST6002 control head and B&G linear hydraulic drive on my boat.
It works very good and very quiet. It is connected to the Raymarine network on my boat and does everything it has to do by the spec.
It was difficult decision to make, to mix Raymarine and B&G. The dealers didn't want to know anything about the other company products. I figured it out based on the specifications. I found out later on that B&G place their name on a drive manufactured in England for many other uses.

[trapper]

We just returned from moving a 41' sloop from St. Augustine to Marathon, Fl. She had a simrod (not sure what model) auto-pilot attached to the wheel. It started to act funny by the time we got to Daytona Beach. Overnight, we went off shore about 20 miles to get around Canaveral and the thing totally failed as the wind built to about 25k. It grabbed hold of the helm and would not turn loose!

The guys had to take the wheel off in the middle of the night, in 25K winds, 20 or so miles off shore to disengage the thing.

It was great while it lasted but its failure could have caused serious problems.

[Duncan]

Cape Horn windvanes have a quadrant in the lazarette. He claims that you can attach a tillerpilot to that quadrant, and thereby have a below-decks autopilot.

Since the autopilot only controls the steering oar, the smallest tiller-type units can be used, even on a large boat.â–º

Description:http://www.capehorn.com/sections/Integr/integrat.htm

Russell's comments re: hydraulics make me wonder if this setup is heavy-duty enough, but I think the solution may be elegant and efficient IF all the forces balance out properly.

I guess this is sort of a "hearsay referral", but I imagine Cape Horn would be happy to respond directly and to provide contact info for some of their customers who have done this.

Cape Horn Home Page:http://www.capehorn.com/

[Russell]

Tiller pilots attached to windvanes do work, but have their own downsides. And they work with any windvane, not just cape horns, though cape horns and aux rudder type windvanes do have the added advantage of still working when a steer cable fails.

The major downside is, one of the reasons might want an AP in addition to a vane, is in the case of vane failure. And yes, windvanes can and do break, they are far more robust then autopilots, but certainly fail in their own ways.

I had a failure with my monitor one time after several years of heavy use, metal fatigue and corrosion kicked in, and even though I had the needed spare parts, the repair involved hanging off the stern of the boat in large seas while single handing, so I elected to wait till port to repair it.

A good below decks autopilot is the best way to go. The tiller pilot on the windvane though is certainly a good way to save some money and I seriously considered this route for awhile. I do know several boats who went this route, I also know several boats who carry a tiller pilot for their windvane in addition to a below decks AP.

[Como No Cruising]

Aboard Como No we have a Alpha 3000 belowdeck Linear Drive autopilot as well as a Monitor Windvane. Both have given us excellent service on our circumnavigation. The only problem we encountered with the Alpha pilot was due to owner error. We neglected to drill a small dimple in the rudder stock when we reinstalled the drive unit quadrant when we replaced the rudder stock in New Zealand. Again--Owner error. Otherwise the pilot has steered well in heavy going on numerous voyages when we elected not to use the windvane for one reason or another.
Amp draw is very reasonable. Would I go with an Alpha again?? You bet.

That said, the Monitor windvane steered us on many ocean miles, including across the Pacific, Atlantic and Indian Oceans. The only issue was when a steering line parted in the Atlantic between the Canary Islands and Cape Verde. The line was original, having been installed in 1997 and had been in service for most of the circumnavigation. Again--owner error. Replace steering lines at least two to three times per round the world.

We met several boats which had only the Monitor or other windvanes with a tiller pilot that could be linked to steer in wind less conditions.

Long passages with minimal crew call for reliable self steering that is used properly--i.e.-good sail trim. Hand steering on passages gets very tiring and can result in fatigue induced errors and other issues.

Hope this helps.

Happy cruising
Will & Annie

[Duncan]

Thanks, Russell, for the clarification. To take this a step further, here's an article based on the Windpilot vane.

http://windpilot.com/n/pdf/BOATWORKSWINDVANE.pdf

[Len]

I'm considering installing a windvane to supplement my below deck autopilot, Does anyone have any experience with the newer model Sailomats? Unlike the Monitors they are made of sheet aluminum (a disadvantage?) but the design is very intriguing

[MFC]

I'm considering installing a windvane to supplement my below deck autopilot, Does anyone have any experience with the newer model Sailomats? Unlike the Monitors they are made of sheet aluminum (a disadvantage?) but the design is very intriguing

Hi Len -

I asked for a quote from Sailomat and they came back with a figure of 4,000 plus shipping which they indicated was a 20% discount from regular pricing. This seems to be in line with Monitor prices. By contrast, Cape Horn is about 3000 (with discount) and South Atlantic vanes are about 2100. The Cape Horn is beautiful, my only worry is what hapens if your boat gets hit back there (it is both unprotected and it penetrates the hull). The South Atlantic looks nice (simple servo pendulum withaclean mountingsystem) but I haven't come across anyone who has used one.

I am wondering who bought those 2 33's which sold recently in NC -- each of which was equipped with a Monitor!

Matt

[Russell]

I have never heard of a negetive review of any of the windvanes currently out there, and I have met people with every one of them. One thing to consider in aluminium vs SS construction though is ease of repair, in an out of the way port you are going to have a much easier time having parts fabricated for the steel vanes, this is the main complain I have heard about the aluminium aries for instance.

If doing it again, I am happy with my monitor, I might give stronger consideration to the hydrovane, but likely the monitor would still win out for me.