Neophyte Sailing Technique Question - Wind 15+

[KDreese]

I currently sail a CD25 and was out sailing solo around Hingham yesterday (Sunday 8-1) trying out my newly installed Tillerpilot. The Tillerpilot worked great, and I cant believed I sailed so long without one, however I do have a sailing technique question...

I motored out to safe area to raise my sails as I always do. I have hank on sails and sailing alone, so I usually go past the channel leading to Hewitts Cove and find a nice spot away from the bouys and boat traffic.

The wind was coming from the east, white caps across the water in spots, and I pointed the boat more or less into the wind. However, this was my first time using the tillerpilot so I needed to run the engine in gear to keep headway so the pilot would stay on course. Given where I was relative to traffic, etc I didnt totally point into the wind (coming from the East) because that course (due East) would have had me headed back toward the channel. In the past I used to point the boat into the wind and attach a bungie cord to the tiller and boom (not always to reliable success).

I let the main sheet out so that when I raised the sail it would round up into the wind and stall, and when I raised it first that was no problem. Some thrashing about in the wind but not a big deal. I then went forward, undid the sail tie on the Genny (Sail is 110% in size I think), and raised the Genny. At this point the boat was not totally facing into the wind so the main was out about 25-30 degrees from center and wind coming from the starboard side.

As soon as I raised the Genny the sail filled so much so that the starboard sheet went to its length and stopped at the figure eight knot in the sheet block. The sail was flying high like a kite on the leward side... port sheet extended as well. The shreaking was a bit loud and the sail was flogging really hard and that concerned me because the sails are not the newest.

I returned to the cockpit, put the motor in neutral (tiller pilot still doing its work keeping the boat on course) and sheeted in the main sail. No problem there. However, when I wrapped the port sheet around the winch I couldnt for the life of me sheet the Genny in. I tried pointing into the wind and sheeting it in but the wind was just howling and now I was healing, looking for other boats to ensure safety, etc. Eventually I gave up, set the tillerpilot again, went forward, and dropped the sail. After that I just sailed with the main.

Even with all that wind the boat really wouldnt tack well with the main. only.. at one point I even turned the motor on again and tacked with the motor...

In the past I really only sailed in about 10 knots of wind and always with the Main and Genny because I knew in light air the CD25 doesnt like to tack with just the main. Anyway, after all that I was concerned about what I should do differently the next time?

- Should I have pointed the boat 100% into the wind to raise sails like I always have? Really just the sails have to be pointed into the wind not the boat but it seemed to not work this time.
- After the issue with the Genny flying high should I have just pointed into the wind and then sheeted it in? Not sure if I could do this given the circumstances with the wind and not being to point into the wind... but in the moment with the wind and sail sound, waves, boats (i was far away from them), etc I may not have tried hard enough.
- Was I putting too much sail up? Most boats had furled at least part of their foresails and some had a reef in the main. Thefore, should I invest in a 100% jib or add a reef to the Genny so I dont sail over canvassed?
- Was the sheet block too far forward? I started with it about half way up the track and then moved it aft but still couldnt sheet in.
- Any other suggestions?

By the way, despite the wind, waves, and trying out new gear (tillerpilot), the old girl did a great job and the boat was still comfortable. She healed over but was still stable and I didnt panic, but it was not what I would consider a "proud" moment of sailing... most importantly I want to really enjoy those types of sailing days (15+ knts) so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Kevin

[MarcMcCarron]

Did you use a winch handle when you tried to sheet the 110 in?
For the life of me I can't figure out why you were unable to sheet it in.
There is no substitute for a nice 10" bronze winch handle.
The plastic ones are for back up only, you loose a bit of power when
they flex.

[Oswego John]

Kevin,

If you want to enjoy sailing in CD type weather, I suggest that you get hold of a 100% working jib with at least one reef.

The secret of rough weather sailing is BALANCE. How much canvas you set behind the mast should be balanced ahead of the mast.

It's tough to set a reef in the mainsail and match it with a 110% hank on genny. The other boats had reefed mains and furling jibs taken in a bit to maintain balance. You can't do that with your setup.

Trying to tack with only the main, the boat tries hard to round up into the wind no matter how hard over the rudder is. Consequently, trying to tack with only a jib, the boat wants to fall off and scud.

To be able to tack and to maintain driving power, there has to be sail balance fore and aft.

In some instances, you can cruise with only a large enough genny where the sheet is far enough aft of the mast to provide some balance.

As for myself, I generally try to nose dead into the wind when hoisting sails. Main first, jib next. But that's just me. Others may do it differently.

Good luck,
O J

[tartansailor]

Hi Kevin,
I sent you a PM.

Dick

[MarcMcCarron]

Having owned a CD25 with six sails, in 20 knots of wind a CD25
is a joy to sail with a 110 and a double reefed main. The boat
likes a spinnaker (symmetrical) in lighter winds (7 knots) .
In 10 knots of wind the boat likes a 135 headsail with full main.
When the wind picks up a single reef and 135, Single reef and
110, Double reef and 110 . There are smaller headsails you can
invest in if you sail in heavy winds but a 110 will take care of most
situations.

[Carl Thunberg]

Maybe I'm not visualizing what happened very well. The main was up, the genny was up, but over-powered so that the winch couldn't pull the jib sheet. I see no reason why the boat wouldn't just head up into the wind, blow or no blow, and then you could regain control and sheet in the jib sheet.

I have to ask the really stupid question. Are you sure you wrapped the winch clockwise around the drum? I really don't mean to insult your intelligence, but it's a plausible explanation. We've all done it, at least once.

As for balance, OJ is right on, as usual.

[KDreese]

Yep, I did wrap the sheet the correct way around the winch. Its possible with the motor in gear the boat wouldnt round up into the wind, but when I put in neutral it still didnt do that. From now on I will follow my usual process of motoring out, pointing into the wind, raise the sails, sheet in and go. I didnt do that this time because it was the first time I used the autopilot and needed the motor in gear... with the wind coming from the east it would have been moving me into the channel. I should have given myself more room and done it the way I am used to. As a result, nothing seemed to go as I expected it to. Live and learn I guess.

KD

[Duncan]

It sounds like your jib was pushing the bow out of the eye of the wind. You note that the boat was heeling, meaning that you were close-reaching, or close-hauled at the time.

A few thoughts:

1) If you're on a mooring, that can be the best place to raise your sails, so long as you have a bit of sea-room. It can be a "heart in your mouth" moment when you let go the pennant, but I usually have enough steerage way to manouever safely within a boat-length or so.

2) Is it possible that your jibsheets are too short, preventing you from luffing the sail until you get the boat into the wind?

3) In 15 knots, especially with a (fuller) older sail, I think you would be better off with at least one reef in the main. If your "genny" is truly a 110, then I would call that a "working jib" and think it would be good for those conditions.

4) You may want to try raising your jib from the cockpit/companionway, where you can manage the tiller a bit better to keep the boat into the wind. Usually, you can reach the halyard from the companionway, to get it started, and the same goes for cleating it off.

I was out last week in 12-15 knots, with two reefs in the main and a 90% jib. I might have been a little under-canvassed in the lulls, but I was making hull speed, or close to it, most of the time.

[Kilgore]

We're supposed to get 16-20, gusts up to 30 tomorrow.
Sailplan suggestions or should I sit it out?

[DaveCD28]

3) In 15 knots, especially with a (fuller) older sail, I think you would be better off with at least one reef in the main. If your "genny" is truly a 110, then I would call that a "working jib" and think it would be good for those conditions.

I was out last week in 12-15 knots, with two reefs in the main and a 90% jib. I might have been a little under-canvassed in the lulls, but I was making hull speed, or close to it, most of the time.

I agree with Duncan here. When the winds are light I run a full main and a 135%. But when the winds start to rise, at 10-15 knots I have my working jib up and at 15-20 I definitely have a reef in the main by then. If you're making close to hull speed then you have enough sail up.

I would suspect, leaving each to his own, that if there are white caps on the water then the working jib should be up and the larger genoa should be in the bag.

Maybe the winds were stronger than you thought they were?

[ckreitlein]

My cut on your question:

(1) It is always best to point into the wind if at all possible when raising and lowering sails. It makes the job soooo much more comfortable for you and the sails. Keeping her into the wind is another problem... particularly for a single-hander. I always leave the engine in gear with low RPMs, just enough to keep her moving forward and with enough grip on the keel and rudder to keep her pointed into the wind. Others say raising the main will turn her into the wind. I have found that counsel poor at best. The sail generally loads halfway up, even with the boom sheet out, and I can't haul it up any further against the strain, the boat takes off on a close haul and does not turn up wind enough to unload the sail and the battens get caught in the lazy jacks, etc. Letting the boom swing in the wind to unload the main is dangerous since you are likely in chop or swells with the boom swinging back and forth trying to knock you into the water. For all these reasons, dead upwind is always best if you can manage it. And, since it is always easier to let out a reef than put one in... if the day looks windy, put in a main reef at the dock before leaving. You can always let it out as you raise the sails.

(2) Boat speed (or lack of) was likely your problem - why you could not haul in the genny. The boat needs speed to build up momentum so you can turn her into the wind regardless of heel or what the sails are doing. Just because the boat is heeling does not mean she is moving. Both keel and rudder need a grip in the water and that only comes with "way on" i.e. speed through the water. In your situation, perhaps you should have just relaxed a second, let the boat build up forward speed/momentum and then turned her into the wind to "unload" the genny IOT sheet it in. An overpowered Cape Dory will always heel and fight to turn upwind. You will have to strain on the rudder to keep her off - that's called weather helm and its a good gauge on when to reef. When you find yourself tugging hard on the rudder to keep a course, it's time to let her turn upwind and reef. A Cape Dory is designed to sail as flat as possible.... there is little benefit to us from heeling in contrast to more modern underway bodies. As modern boats heel, it increases their waterline length and that raises their theoretical hull speed..... not so for us. A Cape Dory making 6kts while heeled over and straining will make 6 knots straight up with two reefs in the main, and you will be much more comfortable albeit with less adrenalin in your veins. I guarantee you that had you sat still for a couple minutes letting your boat build up speed/momentum, you could then have eased her up wind to unload the genny IOT haul it in. All of this presupposes you had the "sea room" to do it.

(3) My opinion...I single-hand my cutter with all hank-on sails and am jealous of those with a roller-furler. I believe no-one benefits more from a roller-furler than a single-hander on a small boat with little room to work on the foredeck. From the safety and comfort of your cockpit, you roll it in and out as conditions change....how nice. A properly rigged roller-furler is safe and reliable. Instead of investing in a bunch of sails - most of which will merely hibernate in your forepeak - I would recommend installing a name-brand roller furler. Then you can turn into the wind, raise your main either on a reef or not depending on conditions, retire to the cockpit, and ease out the genny on the roller furler until you are happy. Something to think about. But, then again, I sail for fun not for an adrenalin rush.

Finally...... my motto: reef early, sail happy.

[DaveCD28]

We're supposed to get 16-20, gusts up to 30 tomorrow.
Sailplan suggestions or should I sit it out?

No offense, but if you're asking this question you should probably sit it out.

Everyone has thier own valid opinion, but as a rule, I always reef for the gusts if they are fairly frequent. In this case, since the gusts would be around 30 I would probably have 2 reefs in the main and a storm jib up if I HAD to be out.... otherwise, I wouldn't be out in that mess.

[Kilgore]

We're supposed to get 16-20, gusts up to 30 tomorrow.
Sailplan suggestions or should I sit it out?

No offense, but if you're asking this question you should probably sit it out.

Everyone has their own valid opinion, but as a rule, I always reef for the gusts if they are fairly frequent. In this case, since the gusts would be around 30 I would probably have 2 reefs in the main and a storm jib up if I HAD to be out.... otherwise, I wouldn't be out in that mess.

None taken. I was thinking the same thing.

[Stan W.]

We're supposed to get 16-20, gusts up to 30 tomorrow.
Sailplan suggestions or should I sit it out?

For me it would be more a question of seas than winds. Your boat can handle those winds with a double-reefed main and a working jib (especially if you have fairly new sails and a mainsheet traveler you can dump to leeward) but beating into steep, closely spaced waves gets pretty old pretty fast.

[Kilgore]

For me it would be more a question of seas than winds. Your boat can handle those winds with a double-reefed main and a working jib (especially if you have fairly new sails and a mainsheet traveler you can dump to leeward) but beating into steep, closely spaced waves gets pretty old pretty fast.

Seas are predicted to be 1' or less, but now gusts as high as 38.
It probably won't be quite as bad in the harbor.
Sails definitely not new, possibly original but I do have a traveler.