AUTOMATIC BILGE PUMP

[Parfait's Provider]

Some may remember that several years ago I was on a trip to design and build the world's greatest bilge pump system. Well, I am being less ambitious this round, but I do want one that works and then another just like it and totally independent. My bilge filled with shore water on Saturday night and I discovered it at O230. When I switched the pump on manually, it took about 1/2 hour to empty the bilge after the shore water was shut off. The pump did not run in "automatic."

There were two problems: first, the float switch was floating, but contact was not being made. After manipulating it for awhile, it regained the ability to make and break. At first it acted like it had hysteresis, so whatever is inside was stuck. Second, the switch in the switch panel was not making contact. Further manipulation there got us past that issue too. Having pulled the pump and float switch, I decided to discard the housing I had made and now have an aluminum strap that is hose clamped to the pump with the float switch clamped on top of the pump to the same strap, which reaches up to the hatch. The strap is looped over a hose to keep everything vertical and there is enough wire that I can pull the whole assembly in seconds to clear crud. I have two suspect parts in the system at the moment and they will be replaced.

The question is:

What do you use that has been reliable? I need new panel switches and new float switches, and probably an alarm on top of it all. Almost no expense will be spared.

[Oswego John]

Hi Ken,

I smile as I reminisce and mention a brain storm I once had. Back in the roaring 50s, I had a wooden planked work boat. Hmmm, that was over 50 years ago. Ouch. Yeah, it was a leaker. Somewhere in its deep, dark innards was an insidious leak that defied detection by humankind.

The boat was equipped with a bronze, heavy duty pump which worked flawlessly. The trouble was trying to find a reliable float switch to make it work.

One evening, I received inspiration from the patron saint of all inventors, Rube Goldberg.

The end result was that I used a toilet tank float located in the bilge.When taking on water, the float raised a 3/8" dowel (untreated to keep costs down) whick passed vertically through two eye screws, and eventuall pressed against the actuator of a 30 A micro switch. Boats in those days used 6 Volt systems.

I have to say that my improved float switch system worked so well that I never changed it for many years up to the day I sold it.

Thank you, Rube,
O J
PS: Ken, did you ever finish those rub rails?

[Parfait's Provider]

The engineer in me wants to invent a better/cheaper Ultimate Switch, your toilet float reminds me that I have a spare sump pump in the garage. I'll probably just buy and ultimate switch and a Blue Sea switch for the control panel. A redundant system seems prudent too.

The 14 is still awaiting some maintenance time. The garage is getting cleaned out slowly, so maybe that will make a good project for this Winter when boating and working on the RV are less attractive. I did find some mahogany out in the hinterlands of NC, but it was so deep I wouldn't even ask them to get it out for inspection.

[tartansailor]

The strap is looped over a hose to keep everything vertical and there is enough wire that I can pull the whole assembly in seconds to clear crud. I have two suspect parts in the system at the moment and they will be replaced.

What has worked flawlessly for me as a pre pump filter is a piece of 3M Scotchbrite fastened to the bottom of my bilge pump inlets.
I have never had a pump fouling failure with this arangement.

Dick

[Parfait's Provider]

Dick,

Thanks for that suggestion. It is much better than the perforated PVC housing I made. I've not had a pump failure, just switches and human, but I really like that idea especially since I have a large inventory of Scotch Brite.

[rtbates]

My take on filtering the bilge pump is that the last thing you want during a pumping event is a clogged filter hence no out flow. A much better option, IMHO, is a pump that simply passes the crud. This requires a diagraphm pump. My Jabsco will spit out a marble...
My experience with the drop in centri pumps is they suck and NOT in the good way. When I had one it seemed that everytime I tried to use it the impeller was clogged with debris. After cleaning all was swell. Not a very good scenario for an emergency (while I'm away) bilge pump system. Five years with the Jabsco and it has never failed to pump, except when the auto switch failed. Hopefully the newly installed Smart Switch will perform..

[tartansailor]

My take on filtering the bilge pump is that the last thing you want during a pumping event is a clogged filter hence no out flow. A much better option, IMHO, is a pump that simply passes the crud. This requires a diagraphm pump. My Jabsco will spit out a marble...
My experience with the drop in centri pumps is they suck and NOT in the good way. When I had one it seemed that everytime I tried to use it the impeller was clogged with debris. After cleaning all was swell. Not a very good scenario for an emergency (while I'm away) bilge pump system. Five years with the Jabsco and it has never failed to pump, except when the auto switch failed. Hopefully the newly installed Smart Switch will perform..

I take it that your bilge is squeaky clean
Very good.

Dick

[Parfait's Provider]

Parfait's bilge is relatively clean, not loaded with junk, just water. It has been scrubbed since I owned her. All sorts of items came up. I'd not want any of them trying to pass through a diaphragm pump that might just put it out of commission by holding a check valve open. Having a filter that needs to be wiped is a lot easier than having a pump that needs to be unclogged in an emergency.

Mind you, I'd love to have a perfectly dry bilge and the centrifugal pump won't do that. I am going to use a check valve on one pump, but not both.

[John Danicic]

Ken:

On Mariah, the bilge is clean but not dry. An odd, slow leak whose location baffles me, keeps the cheep, West Marine Automatic 3/4 inch pump well lubricated and exercised. I keep the bilge clean with a regular wash down twice a year which I think, keeps the pump grate clean and its automatic abilities enabled.

The pump sits in the bilge bottom but is not strong enough to over come a check valve and the long run to the stern so when it shuts off, a column of water returns to the bilge. Hence there is always about 2 inches or so of water to slosh around.

It would be nice to find the leak someday (I have my suspects), which, will almost fill the bilge in about two weeks if the pump is turned off, but it would also be nice to install a pump that will completely drain the bilge so that it could be dry for once.

Let me know what you come up with and if you have any idea's as to where in a CD36 a leak like that could occur.


Sail on

John Danicic

CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655

[Parfait's Provider]

John,

I am fairly well convinced that the pressure water system on Parfait adds quite a bit of water to the bilge over time. It is especially annoying when the boat is hooked up to shore water and the hot water inlet valve is on.

I also think that the mast contributes rainwater. I don't know how much, but it surely is not sealed tight at the masthead with internal halyards.

My stuffing box used to contribute, but that doesn't reach the bilge unless you don't run the sump soon enough.

Changing the subject, do you ever run into Larry DeMers up there?

[rtbates]

My take on filtering the bilge pump is that the last thing you want during a pumping event is a clogged filter hence no out flow. A much better option, IMHO, is a pump that simply passes the crud. This requires a diagraphm pump. My Jabsco will spit out a marble...
My experience with the drop in centri pumps is they suck and NOT in the good way. When I had one it seemed that everytime I tried to use it the impeller was clogged with debris. After cleaning all was swell. Not a very good scenario for an emergency (while I'm away) bilge pump system. Five years with the Jabsco and it has never failed to pump, except when the auto switch failed. Hopefully the newly installed Smart Switch will perform..

I take it that your bilge is squeaky clean


Very good.

Dick

as a whistle... BUT having a filter would be a bigger problem for me IF my bilge was full of stuff. I want and have a bilge pump (Jabsco) that will suck up and spit out most bilge debri. To have a filter clog and stop the pumping as the pump continues to try to pump and heat up, all the while I'm not there, is not a scene I want to see happen.

[Parfait's Provider]

You make a good point. Everything is a compromise from the ideal.

I think in the context of bilge pumps, we are looking at a screen for objects large enough to jam the pump in some way, not a filter to clog with microscopic particles. The ScotchGuard is not a filter than can clog unless a lot of paper surrounds it and eventually covers it. If your diaphragm pump sucks up that much paper it will clog too, but probably not burn out as quickly.

[John Danicic]

Ken:

I never thought of the mast as a water source and I'm sure some of it comes from there. The water in our marina can be muddy as we are in a stream mouth. The water in the bilge has red mud in it so........ But this fall after take out, I intend to fill the bilge to the top and see where it comes out. An investigative technique I should of thought of before. I don't connect shore water to the boat but I do know that the over flows for the bow and the midships fresh water tanks can fill the bilge but like I said, the water is muddy and always seems to be there in a most insidious manor.

I do agree about screening the pump from large debris but there should be no reason other then a catastrophe for such large stuff to get into the bilge in the first place if you keep the bilge clean. All bets are off for cleanliness after a collision or grounding adds water and debris into the bilge.

As far as Larry DeMers is concerned, yes I see him often as DeLarMer occupies a slip in our marina. Currently, I think he and his wife Jan are out and about the lake as we speak since they live aboard during the summer. They return every so often to stock up. Do you have a message for him? I would be glad to relay it.


Sail on

John Danicic

CD36 - Mariah- #124
Lake Superior- The Apostle Islands
CDSOA #655

[rtbates]

You make a good point. Everything is a compromise from the ideal.

I think in the context of bilge pumps, we are looking at a screen for objects large enough to jam the pump in some way, not a filter to clog with microscopic particles. The ScotchGuard is not a filter than can clog unless a lot of paper surrounds it and eventually covers it. If your diaphragm pump sucks up that much paper it will clog too, but probably not burn out as quickly.

For sure. My 'screen' is the strum box which has openings maybe 1/4x 3/8... Anything that size or smaller will get spit through a Jabsco pump no problem...

[tartansailor]

I think that a Jabsco pump is fine to address small amounts of rain water, or spray, in a benign venue, however as a stand alone, none have the capacity to pump out a bilge fast! in a near crisis situation.
For that reason prudence dictates multiple pumps with some serious capacity.

Dick