Installing cam cleats on a Typhoon Weekender

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Sea Hunt
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Installing cam cleats on a Typhoon Weekender

Post by Sea Hunt »

18-19 kt winds again today. Beyond my skill level. :(

So, I am going to WM today to look at cam cleats. I am thinking of installing small cam cleats on the coach roof near the standard horn cleats used for halyards. The cam cleats would be used for the jib sheets.

Two questions:

1. This area of the coach roof near the horn cleats seems very thick. Does anyone know if this area is completely fiberglass or if there is balsa core in the middle :?: The particular area I am thinking of using for the cam cleats is between the horn cleats and the sliding edge of the sliding cover and close to the bulkhead.

2. Is this a reasonable "addition" to the Ty Weekender or would it unnecessarily take away from its "classic" look :?:

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions, thoughts, etc.
Fair winds,

Robert

Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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bhartley
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Cabin top

Post by bhartley »

The cabin top is most definitely cored from the edge of the companionway slider to the steep curve in the cabin top.

<img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bfbacvRXBD0/S-rY7 ... %20004.jpg" />
This isn't my cabin top, but mine looked just the same AFTER the recore.
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Markst95
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Post by Markst95 »

Unless I'm picturing this wrong, won't that bring the jib sheets over the halyards? Also the motion of releasing the cleats might be a strain on your shoulders reaching foward and up. The Sheets might also be in the way now if you want to get into the cabin. I've heard of mounting cam cleats on the combing instead of a horn cleat. Then you can use them for both the jib and genoa.
Jim Sullivan
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I used lateral clam cleats

Post by Jim Sullivan »

On both of my Typhoons, I mounted lateral clam cleats on the outside of each coaming flush with the top edge. See following link for an example:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... _sku=92683

Lateral clam cleats worked fine for me with the working jib. Never had a problem with them. Easy to secure and release. I do not know how they would work with a genoa. My jib sheets were 3/8" braided dacron.

Jim
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Post by mgphl52 »

Markst95 wrote:Unless I'm picturing this wrong, won't that bring the jib sheets over the halyards? Also the motion of releasing the cleats might be a strain on your shoulders reaching foward and up. The Sheets might also be in the way now if you want to get into the cabin. I've heard of mounting cam cleats on the combing instead of a horn cleat. Then you can use them for both the jib and genoa.
Both of my Typhoons were set up with the cam cleats outboard of the halyard cleats and they were very useful.

-michael
-michael & Toni CDSOA #789
s/v KAYLA CD28 #318
2012 FLSTC Heritage Classic
Niceville FL
+30° 30' 24.60", -86° 26' 32.10"
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sloopjohnl
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Post by sloopjohnl »

my typhoon ('76) came from the factory with cam cleats on the coachroof outside of the horn cleats mounted on the teak blocks. they were mounted on the edge of the coachroof and the cockpit/companionway forward bulkhead. i had to replace them with harken cam cleats after one of the cams broke. when you mount them i would suggest drilling larger holes, filling with epoxy and redrilling to a smaller correct size. i did not do this initially and even though they were well mounted and caulked, i developed a lot of cracks in the gelcoat radiating from the bolt holes from the old and new cleats. repairing those cracks was a large portion of this springs work!
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Sea Hunt
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Post by Sea Hunt »

"BHartley", "Mark", "Jim", "Mike" and "SloopJohnl":

Thanks very much for the advise and recommendations. I will check to see how the cam cleats will look (and work) when positioned outside of the horn cleats. I am looking at the Harken #150 with a fairlead cover #425. They were recently reviewed in Practical Sailor.

I will definitely drill larger holes and fill with epoxy, although the thought of drilling holes in S/V Tadpole is scary. Bill-N-OK, where did you find the courage :?: :D
Fair winds,

Robert

Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Markst95
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Post by Markst95 »

Sea Hunt- What don't you like about the horn cleats? Are you finding them difficult to use with higher winds? How are you tying the jib sheets? Just wondering, I find they work pretty well. I do a couple of wraps around the winch then go under the horn cleat on the combing, come up around the stern end and then just loop it around the front end. The tension from the line keeps everything secured nicely. All I have to do is release the line from the front, unloop it and then it runs free.
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Sea Hunt
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Post by Sea Hunt »

Hello Mark:

You need to bear with me a little. As most know, I am dumber than dirt and very slow to learn. My thinking takes a few minutes to put down on paper (or computer).

That said, my thinking was that with a cam cleat port and starboard for the jib sheets it will be easier (and quicker) to be able to adjust the jib sheet(s) and will be easier to release the working jib sheet during tacks and jibes.

I have one continuous jib sheet that is secured at the clew of the jib with a Lark's Head knot (at least that's what I think it's called :roll: ).

The Harbor 20s I "race" (you can hardly call what I do "racing") have a very similar set up with a working jib (although the Harbor 20s also have a furler and blocks at the jib clew). I have been comfortable using these cam cleats during our races.

A very experienced sailor at the local sailing club has configured one of the club's Ensigns with a similar set up. The only difference is the Harbor 20s and the Ensign have small blocks at the clew of the jib (and the furler on the Harbor 20s). I had thought of installing blocks at the clew also to allow for less effort in adjusting the sheets but decided it was not really necessary. If I recall correctly, Mr. Vigor persuaded me it was really not necessary. He gave good advise - as usual.

My current procedure is as you have described it in your post. The working sheet goes through the track fairlead on the coach roof then to the winch (2 wraps) and then around the horn cleat on the coaming.

Remembering please that I am a "tadpole sailor" who single hands 99% of the time I found it somewhat uncomfortable and time consuming to reach over from the windward side of the cockpit, grab the working jib sheet, unwrap it from the coaming cleat and then unwrap it from the winch. It just seems like it would be easier to pull up on the working sheet to release it from the cam cleat to make a small adjustment in the jib or to release it and tack over (or jibe).

I also thought of it as a safety issue. Should I suddenly get very overpowered, I could quickly release both the jib sheet and the main sheet with just two quick upward pulls, and come up head to wind and figure out what "HE double hockey sticks" just happened.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :wink:

I would be VERY grateful for your thoughts (and those of others on the board) and suggestions on my thinking and procedures. I have much to learn. It is a very steep learning curve and I ain't a quick learner. :(

To avoid making another unnecessary post, "Sloopjohnl" suggested drilling larger holes and filling with epoxy. I will do this. What do board members think of West System Six10 Thickened Epoxy for this purpose :?:
Fair winds,

Robert

Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
Bob B
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Cam Cleats

Post by Bob B »

I have a pair of cam cleats that I took off of my typhoon when I replaced them with coaming cleats. These cam cleats were on the coaming boards aft of the winch where the person at the tiller could handle them with ease. If you'd like them send me a pm with and address. I'll just donate them.

Bob B.
Typhoon Liberty
Lancaster, SC
sloopjohnl
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Post by sloopjohnl »

Sea Hunt,

once you install and use the cam cleats you will never go back. they make a single-handed tack so much easier and faster that you can tack with a minimal loss of speed. to complicate things even more for you, i had a guy who used to race in europe sail with me one day who strongly suggested putting track on the deck about the vicinity of the portlights and lead the jib sheet back to the winch at the coaming. he said this would provide a better slot for the main and jib. not being a racer and never really being in a big hurry i never took his advice.

west system is what i use, although there are other good ones out there.
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Sea Hunt
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Post by Sea Hunt »

"Bob B.":

Thank you very much for the kind offer. Unfortunately for me, this morning I bought two sets of Harken cam cleats and fairlead covers at WM. I had a $10 coupon but they were still expensive.

"Sloopjohnl":

Thanks for the encouragement. Drilling holes in a boat (even small holes) is not something I look forward to. Knowing it will make a difference is incentive to do it.

In terms of a track on the deck near the portlights I think maybe your friend was thinking it would open up the slot between the main and jib a little more and prevent a working jib from "backwinding" the main - at least that's how I think it was explained to me by a guy who installed a track on his Ensign that he does race a little.

I do not race S/V Tadpole. She is intended for leisurely sails on nice days with a sandwich and a soda pop (and a Guinness for after she is securely back on her mooring :wink: )
Fair winds,

Robert

Sea Hunt a/k/a "The Tadpole Sailor"
CDSOA #1097
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Mike Wainfeld
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Cam cleats

Post by Mike Wainfeld »

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf3 ... /ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7cf3 ... /ry%3D400/
A couple of photos-Great upgrade-as noted above it makes singlehanding much easier, especially in a breeze.
NB-To bolt these on you must first make a larger hole, dig out a bit of core around, fill that hole with epoxy, then drill the actual hole thru the epoxy. This will prevent any water intrusion into the core. Just bedding the fittings is not enough.
Have fun!
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Post by Jeff and Sarah »

Cam cleats are great for jib sheets- I think they are a worthy addition that you'll enjoy more than you expect.

I race J22s and we often use 2:1 jib sheets. The standard in our fleet is to tie the jib sheet off to the jib lead car, go through the clew, then back down and through the jib lead before heading back to the cockpit- no block at the clew at all. You might try that out since it's relatively little cost (you won't be able to use your continuous jib sheet). We do pretty well with that set up and it's how the guys who have won the World Championship the last few years do it.
Bob B
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cam cleats

Post by Bob B »

No problem. After all of the raving on how good they work, maybe I should re-install them.
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