Anyone replace the roller on their Spartan bronze bow roller

[Ocean Girl]

I would like to install the spartan bronze bow roller fitting but would prefer a HPMV roller instead of the bronze. Has anyone done this? I will also email spartan to see if they offer an alternative roller.
Thanks!
Erika

PS
I'd prefer HPMV because it would be kinder to my chain and more quiet too.

[Zeida]

Erika, on my Spartan anchor bow roller I do have a 3" rubber roller. Don't know if the size of the bow roller would be the same on your 30. But I am sure you can get rid of the metal roller and find a rubber one that will fit. Even West Marine sells some.

I, however, only carry 25 ft. of chain and 150 ft. of nylon rode. I have a Bruce 33 lb. anchor and it is heavy. I don't have a windlass and have figured out how to use the boat to help me get the anchor back on board.
Cheers.

[Ocean Girl]

Zeida,
Thanks for the reply, it is great to hear from you:).
That is kinda what I was thinking too, I haven't seen a roller prior to installation so wasn't sure what it would entail.

Right now I have 20 ft of 5/16 HT and 150 feet of 1/2 plait rode with a 25lb CQR. BUT I am planning a pacific trip so need to go with a lot more rode with a min of 100ft of chain, so I want to install a manual windlass.

Someone just offered me 200 feet of brand new 1/4 chain for free, I think it is proof coil but haven't seen it yet. I had planned on 100 feet of 5/16 but 200 feet of free chain is a sign from God .

Can you expand a bit on your technique for retrieval when single handing?

Cheers,
Erika

[Zeida]

Hi Erika... to retrieve the anchor when just by myself... First, I never anchor by myself IF it is too windy. Tried that once and almost killed myself. (not really)

With the engine in very slow forward, i run to the bow and start pulling in the nylon rode. by doing that, the boat actually goes in the direction of the anchor. Remember that I have just 25 ft. of chain. So when all the rode is in and I'm up to half of the chain, I cleat the chain around one of my bow cleats securely, run back to the wheel and gradually now add thrust and steer in the direction i need to go. The strength of the boat actually trips the anchor... and I can feel when I' free... with the anchor now swimming thru the water under the boat for a minute or so, I run back to the bow and pull the rest of it up on deck. That's it. Run back to the wheel and continue on my way.
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As you can see, I do not have a windlass because you can not put one in on the CD33 unless you make huge modifications to that front deck which I was not willing to make. There is not enough strong fiberglass surface -due to the anchor well hatch- so I learned to live with my current arrangement.

Since I mostly sail in the bay area and Florida keys, (shallow) I rarely use anything over 50 ft of rode -plus all my chain- so it is not too bad. As you can see, my bow roller has gotten quite old by now, so it's time to get a new one. 3" is the right size that fits in there.

[Ocean Girl]

Yep, that is what I do. I was hoping there was a secret retrieval technique..like an elf that pops up from the anchor locker.
Spartan wrote me back and stated that they do not offer a plastic/rubber roller for the spartan bronze bow roller.
When I get it in I'll just see what I can fit on it, I am thinking a 3" will fit. Thanks !!
Cheers,
Erika

[Russell]

Erika, I do hope the free chain does not turn out to be proof coil, and if it does I hope you turn it down.

100' of chain is really a bare minimum for pacific cruising, from what I understand, depending on where you plant to go. A lot of the lagoons are very deep with very abraisive bottoms. A CD30 will have weight issues if you stow too much up in the bow. Is the locker divided? I would lean towards a setup like primary rode being 50' of 5/16 HT with 100' of line spliced on, use this for normal shallow anchorages. Secondary I would go for 150' at least of 1/4 HT, for deep anchorages, with another 100' of line rode. Both rodes would act as primary but in different situations. Granted you cannot carry two primary anchors on the bow as well, so keep your shackle in good shape for switching your primary anchor between the rodes for the given situation (dont go overboard on seizing wire, but dont slack on it either of course). Its kind of an odd setup rode wise, but I think would work well for a CD30. For what its worth I started out cruising with 300' of 5/16 HT chain on my primary and 75' of chain my secondary with 150' of line. I currently only have about 170 of chain on my primary with 100' of line spliced on (5 years of almost full time at anchor did enough damage to the chain to cause me to outright cut that much off and ditch it, but not ready to shell out for a full half drum of chain again). In the caribbean there is only a few spots where I anchored in 70+ feet of depth, and i was happy to have full chain, in the pacific it will be a more common situation and I would be prepared for that.

Zeida,

Thats the first picture I have ever seen of the CD33 bow, very interesting, certainly a departure from most CDs in that you have access to your anchor locker from above, no bowsprit and a very interesting bronze fitting up there.


Now, on anchoring alone. I have anchored my CD36 solo countless times in any weather condition you can imagine and any bottom you can imagine. I do have an electric windlass, which makes life easier, but I only use it on anchor retreival, never when deploying. My method though works just as well with a manual windlass and even hand over hand. The key to anchoring solo or retreiving the anchor solo is basicly: take it slow and easy, and dont worry what you look like while doing it.

Deploying: Find your spot, dont worry if you have to circle the anchorages many times, especially in a crowded one. Find a spot you are confident with and feel like you have plenty of room. When anchor solo that extra space is far more important. In time you naturally know based on wind and space where you can manage to anchor solo, in the begining always give yourself plenty of space, if enough is not there, move to another anchorage.

Motor up to your desired drop spot, then here is one of the areas you need to understand your boat and judge the wind. You need to motor past the desired drop zone to give yourself time to go forward (not run) and drop the anchor. Free fall is the only way to go when single handing, electric windless are useless for solo anchoring. Drop the chain free fall till the anchor hits the bottom then tighten the clutch on the windlass and wait till the boat starts drifting back (or sans windlass put a wrap around a cleat). Here is where understand the wind effect helps, windy days vs calm days your reaction time will change a lot. Once the wind starts pushing the boat back try to let out chain at roughly the same speed as the boat moves back. Do not worry about what you have seen double handed+ boats do here, they often have someone at the helm put the boat in reverse to keep it "strait" to look all spiffy. DOnt worry about that, your boat in any sort of wind is going to basicly turn sideways as you pay out the chain, this is fine and expected, it actually helps you, that extra windage helps set your anchor. Keep paying it out, you can judge how fast you are paying it out by how strait your boat is to the wind, pay it out too fast and it will remain abeam to the wind, pay it out too slow the boat will straiten up too much (or drag, when paying it out by hand you can always feel or see the "skip" in the chain when dragging). Once enough is let out, snub the chain, go back to the cockpit, relax for a bit (dont open a beer yet), wash all the chain gunk off your hands, then depending on the bottom back down on it or let in sink in for awhile.

Retreaiving: This is the more difficult operation solo. In a crowded anchorage is can be hair raising, in a crowded anchorage without a windlass it will be even more so (I dont recommend it solo without windlass in any reasonably sized boat in a crowded spot).

Electric: In a way, an electric windlass makes things worse here if its crowded. Electric windlasses can only handle so much load, you have to be careful, you never ever "pull" the boat with the windlass. In a zero wind situation you can get away with pulling up 20' of chain at a time then letting the weight of the chain pull you forward, then pull up more. But any kind of wind, you cannot let the windlass take the load, the motor will burn out or the clutch will slip, neither which is a good thing when solo anchoring. So with an electric windlass its a ton of back and forth, start with motoring forward into the wind, how far depends on the depth, you dont want to run over your own chain, then walk go forward and pull up slack in the chain, not all of it, you need to give yourself enough time to walk (not run) back to the cockpit to motor forward more before the windlass takes any load. Basicly just repeat till you have your anchor. In a crowded spot you will likely end up having to leave the anchor in the water, just get it up far enough the anchorage depath that it wont snag while you motor out. Once its free you will start drifting into other people and you want to be in the cockpit and in control when that happens, so dont worry about the anchor being on the roller itsself. Besides dragging it in the water for a bit will let the water do a huge part of the cleaning job for you.

Manual windlass: Much the same as above, but a manual windlass usually has a way to positively lock it between cranks, so no concern on clutch slippage, you can do the bulk of your anchor wieghing staying forward and cracking away on the windlass till you get close, unless is insanely windly so you need to motor forward just to take load off because you cannot crank manually. Manually only windlasses ussually involve a long bar that you can work back and forth while standing, giving a huge amount of leverage. An electric windlass thats dead and resorting to manual mode though tends to be a 1:1 purchase winch, giving little leverage and sore arms. You only need to resort to the walking back and forth part when you get towards the end of your chain, this is where manual becomes difficult. Once the anchor breaks free and you are drifing, you do need to get a few feet in before you can motor out of the anchorage, you want to ensure enough is up that you do not snag in shallower parts while you motor away from your neighbors. Electric once free you can get a dozen feetup in a couple seconds before heading back to the cockpit to steer away from other boats, manual is slow even once free (actually freehanding without windlass is faster here and in a real crowded spot may be what you resort to once broke free). More forethought and planning ahead is needed with a manual windlass, but its entirely doable.

Solo without windlass, a CD30 is basicly beyond the limit of what I would consider safe to do that on a regular full time crusing basis, too often you will find yourself in situations where its frantic haywire running around the boat (notice I always say walk back to the cockpit). With crew is certainly doable, solo its doable but not when you are anchoring deep and/or difficult anchorages with 15 to 20 knots of wind as the daily norm and excess of that often expected.

My CD36 I would not be happy at all with a manual single handing, but that said a dear friend solos a Tayana 37 (much heavier then a CD36) and is about 30 years older then me (I am 34 for reference) and uses a manual windlass. But at the same time he moves rarely and the windlass and difficulty of moving is part of that (another part is when you are anchored in paradise it really can be hard to move to the next paradise). A CD30 with a reasonably fit person I think a manual is absolute fine for a single hander, but I definately would not recommend full time cruising without a windlass (unless your just going up and down the ICW, we are talking extended cruising here).

Sorry to be long winded, solo anchoring is an art form to be sure, when you get comfortable with it, its fun when you go ashore for your sundowner and all the couples buy you drinks and tell you they dont anchor that well as a doublehanders. There is something to be said for not having a mate yell at you, and when you get confident enough to casually walk between the cockpit and bow while the wind is blowing 30 knots as you anchor, people get unnecessarily impressed.

[Bob Ohler]

Ocean Girl,
Much of my sailing and anchoring is done single-handed. I sail a CD30 (hull #335). My primary anchor is a 22 pound Bruce, with 30 feet of 3/8" chain and 150 feet of 9/16" nylon. I sail and cruise the Chesapeake. When anchored, I sleep well at night.

Here are some of my ancoring techniques:

I use a float tied to a tether on the anchor. I like being able to see where my anchor is located as well as showing other boaters where my anchor is located.

When I have determined approximately where I want to anchor, I go forward and get the tackle ready to deploy. I return to the helm. I check my surroundings and the depth.

I slowly move the boat into position, and wearing leather work gloves, I deploy the anchor. I use a 7 to 1 scope unless I am only ancoring for lunch. I return to the helm and slowly back down on the anchor.

When hauling the anchor, I think through exactly how I will leave the anchorage. I plan multiple exits. With the engine running, I go forward and start to haul the tackle. If the wind and current is strong, I tie-off the rode, return to the helm, put the transmission in forward and motor towards the anchor float. I then shift to neutral. I return to the bow and haul-in the slack and additional rode. I repeat this as necessary. I use the wash-down hose as much as possible. If necessary, I will allow the anchor to "swim" until I can motor clear of the other boats, at which time I set the auto pilot and stow the remaining chain and lock the anchor.

OG, IF you add a windlass, I would love to see how you fit it on the narrow deck of the CD30.

Fair winds,
Bob O.

[Zeida]

Bob O... you have made a perfect description of what I also do, basically, except I don't have the float tied to a tether of the anchor, which I should probably have... makes a lot of sense. Many times I am in a small, crowded anchorage and people (other boats) constantly motor over my rode and I have to keep screaming out at them to watch out. I do exactly the same as you when ready to hoist. Careful planning is critical of how to get out of there without hitting anyone but so far, I have managed. It is a no-nonsense well thought out plan for singlehanders with no windlass.

[Ocean Girl]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Russell I think you are absolutely right about the chain, if it is HT I will think long and hard. The work load for 1/4 HT is good but I'd feel a whole lot better with 5/16 HT (which is my answer right there!).
I really like the idea of 100-150 ft of chain with 200-250 rode. Single handing, and I am a not as strong as a guy (no offense to any of the strong women out there!!) but hauling up all that weight...not sure if all chain is a realistic thing for me. All my anchoring experience singlehanded has been with 15-30 feet of chain and the rest line, so all chain tackle is a bit intimidating. In my crewing days I have hauled up 250 ft of chain via a windlass so I know what it will entail (a nap afterwards!!) but I always had someone at the helm..sigh

I guess the question is... the average depth of anchorages in the pacific?
I want a scope of 7:1 (?)....
How much rode is used on average in those deep anchorages?
I wonder, since some are so deep say 50-70 ft then 7:1 is not really attainable is it? really the best you can do is 5:1 (?).

Well anyways, I am getting the Spartan bronze roller and change out the bronze roller, and I will fit a manual windlass ( b/f pacific).
Bob, I know CD30's with windlass installed. I'll take some pics, but it is not easy to fit nor pretty! I think the key is getting rid of the staysail boom/fitting.
Thanks again,
Erika

[Bob Ohler]

Ocean Girl,

Are you eliminating the entire staysail, or just the club foot boom? What are doing about the inner stay? If you are eliminating the staysail, what is your head sail inventory going to look like? I would be interested in seeing the photos of a CD30 with a windlass installed.

Thanks and Fair Winds,

Bob O.

[Steve Laume]

Raven came with a 35Lb CQR, 20Ft of 3/8" chain and a 1" braided rode.

I immediately changed to lighter three strand nylon and was happy to have the large CQR. I felt the chain was too short and too heavy but used it for a couple of years with the stock CD bow roller. The roller seemed pretty useless especially when single handing as if not perfectly aligned to rode would slip off.

I looked at the Spartan and Windline rollers. Although the Spartan is a work of art worhty of our boats, I went with the Windline. It is a beefy hunk of stainless that bolts through the bow sprit in numerous locations and well aft towards the bow. I felt this tended to distribute the load much better than the Spartan roller. It also comes with a rubber roller, so you are not tossing out something you just paid a lot of money for.

Last year I went with 90Ft of chain and spliced my three strand to it. In most shallow anchoring situations I am on chain with enough nylon out to act as a snubber along with a chain hook to the other chock to make up a bridle.

With mostly chain in crowded anchorages having some yahoo run over my rode is not nearly as big a concern. Unless it is pretty windy it falls away quickly. Pulling that much chain by hand is a PITA but doable. It has the additional advantage of falling into the locker quite nicely. It also adds some weight forward, which most of our boats can use.

I too would like to see some windlass installations on a CD-30. It seems like it wants to be a vertical to be able to use the rope and chain functions with the inner stay in place. I have considered adding one but don't want to give up my club footed staysail. If I were not planning to do much coastal cruising I might think differently.

I am very happy with the 90Ft of chain at this point, Steve.

[Bob Ohler]

Steve, did you switch from 3/8" to 5/16" chain when you changed your rode?

Thanks,
Bob O.

[mgphl52]

While not a CD30... here's a pic showing KAYLA's windlass. This was done by a PO after he had removed the jib club. A CD30 should have room ahead of the stay sail club for a similar installation, I think...

<a href="http://www.bbsc.com/KAYLA/misc/bowpulpi ... d-view.jpg" target="_blank"><img width="600" src="http://www.bbsc.com/KAYLA/misc/bowpulpi ... w.jpg"></a>

-michael

[Ocean Girl]

Thanks all, I am off work today so will walk over to the CD dock and snap some shots. I believe there are two horizontal windlasses and two or three vertical , lots of 30 CDs on this dock, thus I call it the CD dock:)

My idea is to remove the staysail boom and bronze deck mount, I still want to run the staysail as boomless self tending. I also would like to install a quick release lever for the staysail rigging, this will allow me to keep the deck clear when I need it to be, plus easier to tack my big genoa.

Erika

[Steve Laume]

Erika, I am not sure you can have it both ways, boomless and self tacking.

The reason for the boom is to get the correct sheeting angle on the staysail while having the sheet forward of the mast so it can be self tacking. If you eliminate the boom and install a traveler the sheet pull will be almost straight down along the clew. The outhaul on the boom is what eliminates this. If you do want to get rid of the boom I believe you would have to install staysail tracks aft of the mast and loose your self tacking ability. Not a bad set up unless you are short tacking in a crowded area.

Bob, I did indeed go to 5/16" chain which is more than strong enough and reduced the overall weight I have to deal with.

Most things in life are a compromise, Steve.