I'm planning to repack the stuffing box on my 1978 CD 28. It is not leaking excessively but I figure it has not been done in a decade and consider this prophylactic maintenance. My question to other 28 or 30 ers is how big a deal is it. At 6' 240 lbs. should I try it myself or be better off having the yard do it (pay for a smaller person).
Thanks,
Paul
s/v Serenitas
Hull 205
scribner@channel1.com
Stuffing Box
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Ken Cave
Re: Stuffing Box
Believe me! You are too old and too big to do the job yourself (been there and tried to do that!)
I just had my local boat yard install a PSS unit which means no need to worry about a stuffing box-leakage-flange problems, etc.
Before you turn yourself into a pretzel, you might look at the above unit as an alternative. Expensive compared to the old stuffing box-but virtually no maintenance after installation.
Ken Cave
Cape Dory 28 #227
bcave@whidbey.net
I just had my local boat yard install a PSS unit which means no need to worry about a stuffing box-leakage-flange problems, etc.
Before you turn yourself into a pretzel, you might look at the above unit as an alternative. Expensive compared to the old stuffing box-but virtually no maintenance after installation.
Ken Cave
Cape Dory 28 #227
bcave@whidbey.net
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Larry DeMers
Re: Stuffing Box
I'm similarily sized and did my CD30 a few years ago. It takes a bit of time, but with the magic tool, it goes pretty fast and is not hard to do. The magic tool is a small screwdriver that has been ground to a point, which has been turned inwards about 60 deg. The idea is make a pick that can be used to pick the old packing out with.
To replace the packing, just put a coil of the material on the shaft, and where the start of the coil is passed by the material as it goes into the second turn around the shaft, you make a fine cut at about 45 deg. to the material, through both the end of the coil and the next trun.
This sounds far tougher than it is..due to a lousy expanation mainly. But what you are trying toget to is a single turn of packing that has a minimum sized gap between the start and the end of the material.
You will need to do this 2-3 times, depending on what size your gland is, and whether you use the teflon no-drip int he middle of the three turns. This is truly good stuff, and it allows you to get to the point of no drips at all.
I would opt for this option way before installing an expensive "dripless" system. Your safety factor will be higher also, as there are cases of the bellows cracking and leaking large quantities of water into the boat, as well as the two mating surfaces not staying true to each other, and again leaking. I know that there are many successfully installed systems, but what do you gain with the dripless systems over using teflon between the flax packing? Nothing at all. What do you loose? You loose a small amount of security against water intrusion at unexpected times. You also loose a few hundred $$ plus the time to install it.
In my opinion, the bellows type packing system has no place on any vessel that plans to be independant from shore for any period of time.
I am however aware that there are sytems aboard commercial vessels as well as hundreds of yachts, so it is a personal choice. But you need to answer (to yourself) what is better? A high tech solution that introduces a new failure mode to the boat, or a proven older technology/newer technology marriage that does not increase the risk to the boat.
This is my own personal opinion, after 30 years of sailing, 10 of them in our CD30. I am not a technology ludite either.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~
demers@sgi.com
To replace the packing, just put a coil of the material on the shaft, and where the start of the coil is passed by the material as it goes into the second turn around the shaft, you make a fine cut at about 45 deg. to the material, through both the end of the coil and the next trun.
This sounds far tougher than it is..due to a lousy expanation mainly. But what you are trying toget to is a single turn of packing that has a minimum sized gap between the start and the end of the material.
You will need to do this 2-3 times, depending on what size your gland is, and whether you use the teflon no-drip int he middle of the three turns. This is truly good stuff, and it allows you to get to the point of no drips at all.
I would opt for this option way before installing an expensive "dripless" system. Your safety factor will be higher also, as there are cases of the bellows cracking and leaking large quantities of water into the boat, as well as the two mating surfaces not staying true to each other, and again leaking. I know that there are many successfully installed systems, but what do you gain with the dripless systems over using teflon between the flax packing? Nothing at all. What do you loose? You loose a small amount of security against water intrusion at unexpected times. You also loose a few hundred $$ plus the time to install it.
In my opinion, the bellows type packing system has no place on any vessel that plans to be independant from shore for any period of time.
I am however aware that there are sytems aboard commercial vessels as well as hundreds of yachts, so it is a personal choice. But you need to answer (to yourself) what is better? A high tech solution that introduces a new failure mode to the boat, or a proven older technology/newer technology marriage that does not increase the risk to the boat.
This is my own personal opinion, after 30 years of sailing, 10 of them in our CD30. I am not a technology ludite either.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~
Paul Scribner wrote: I'm planning to repack the stuffing box on my 1978 CD 28. It is not leaking excessively but I figure it has not been done in a decade and consider this prophylactic maintenance. My question to other 28 or 30 ers is how big a deal is it. At 6' 240 lbs. should I try it myself or be better off having the yard do it (pay for a smaller person).
Thanks,
Paul
s/v Serenitas
Hull 205
demers@sgi.com
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Dale Weston
Re: Stuffing Box
Larry, I read with interest up to this point. I have been looking for a magic tool. . . actually I've bought the packing gland wrenches and discovered that you've got to be at least as smart as the wrench to make it work. My problem seems to be getting any leverage at all. So the boat is in the water, and I would just like to tweak it a bit. Is there magic to mastery of the wrenches that precedes use of the magic tool? Remove the muffler assembly? Thanks, DaleLarry DeMers wrote: I'm similarily sized and did my CD30 a few years ago. It takes a bit of time, but with the magic tool, it goes pretty fast and is not hard to do. The magic tool is . . .
majortest@earthlink.net
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Larry DeMers
Re: Stuffing Box
HI Dale,
True enough..the magic tool needs to have the jamb nut and packing gland backed off to get at the darn thing.
Now, first, let me explain that my CD30 has the standard V-Drive on the end of a Volvo MD7B, so that the shaft packing gland is under the engine and behind it a bit. Also, the packing gland and jamb nut have a series of knurled reliefs cast into them. Your packing gland and jamb nut wrench should be engaging these ridges to make it work right.
What I have done in the past, when the jamb nut was indeed jambed on tight, was to take the biggest damn screwdriver (flat blade) you have, and a hammer. Set the screwdriver blade up against a jamb nut ridge on the bottom side (assuming that you approach this beastie from the starboard side of the boat), and start out with a few gentle taps on the screwdriver, progressing to a significant whomp (technical term, meaning to strike with abandon, but not hard enough to wreck thinigs)or two.
It should break loose, freeing the packing gland. If not, I would try a heat gun or hair dryer applied to the jamb nut, all sides...but *not* the packing nut. It is a temp. differential between the two parts that will work here. Usually, I have found a tap or two was all that was needed to get things freed up.
I hope this helps. Remember to adjust for an approximate drip rate of 1 drip/10 sec. The important thing is the temp. that this coupling reaches under operations. Very carefully, place your hand on the packing gland while or just after operating (please be cautious here) the shaft for a longish period of time. It should be stone cold..ambient temp..no more. Adjust that drip rate as needed to attain this. Note that it takes time for a new packing to settle in after replacement, so you may need to have it drip a bit more at first. It also absorbs water for the first 12 hrs. or so, which will mean doing this twice over a weekend. Check it again a while later, and that should be it.
Write if there are more questions.
Otherwise,
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
True enough..the magic tool needs to have the jamb nut and packing gland backed off to get at the darn thing.
Now, first, let me explain that my CD30 has the standard V-Drive on the end of a Volvo MD7B, so that the shaft packing gland is under the engine and behind it a bit. Also, the packing gland and jamb nut have a series of knurled reliefs cast into them. Your packing gland and jamb nut wrench should be engaging these ridges to make it work right.
What I have done in the past, when the jamb nut was indeed jambed on tight, was to take the biggest damn screwdriver (flat blade) you have, and a hammer. Set the screwdriver blade up against a jamb nut ridge on the bottom side (assuming that you approach this beastie from the starboard side of the boat), and start out with a few gentle taps on the screwdriver, progressing to a significant whomp (technical term, meaning to strike with abandon, but not hard enough to wreck thinigs)or two.
It should break loose, freeing the packing gland. If not, I would try a heat gun or hair dryer applied to the jamb nut, all sides...but *not* the packing nut. It is a temp. differential between the two parts that will work here. Usually, I have found a tap or two was all that was needed to get things freed up.
I hope this helps. Remember to adjust for an approximate drip rate of 1 drip/10 sec. The important thing is the temp. that this coupling reaches under operations. Very carefully, place your hand on the packing gland while or just after operating (please be cautious here) the shaft for a longish period of time. It should be stone cold..ambient temp..no more. Adjust that drip rate as needed to attain this. Note that it takes time for a new packing to settle in after replacement, so you may need to have it drip a bit more at first. It also absorbs water for the first 12 hrs. or so, which will mean doing this twice over a weekend. Check it again a while later, and that should be it.
Write if there are more questions.
Otherwise,
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Dale Weston wrote:Larry, I read with interest up to this point. I have been looking for a magic tool. . . actually I've bought the packing gland wrenches and discovered that you've got to be at least as smart as the wrench to make it work. My problem seems to be getting any leverage at all. So the boat is in the water, and I would just like to tweak it a bit. Is there magic to mastery of the wrenches that precedes use of the magic tool? Remove the muffler assembly? Thanks, DaleLarry DeMers wrote: I'm similarily sized and did my CD30 a few years ago. It takes a bit of time, but with the magic tool, it goes pretty fast and is not hard to do. The magic tool is . . .
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Stuffing Box
HI Dale,
True enough..the magic tool needs to have the jamb nut and packing gland backed off to get at the darn thing.
Now, first, let me explain that my CD30 has the standard V-Drive on the end of a Volvo MD7B, so that the shaft packing gland is under the engine and behind it a bit. Also, the packing gland and jamb nut have a series of knurled reliefs cast into them. Your packing gland and jamb nut wrench should be engaging these ridges to make it work right.
What I have done in the past, when the jamb nut was indeed jambed on tight, was to take the biggest damn screwdriver (flat blade) you have, and a hammer. Set the screwdriver blade up against a jamb nut ridge on the bottom side (assuming that you approach this beastie from the starboard side of the boat), and start out with a few gentle taps on the screwdriver, progressing to a significant whomp (technical term, meaning to strike with abandon, but not hard enough to wreck thinigs)or two.
It should break loose, freeing the packing gland. If not, I would try a heat gun or hair dryer applied to the jamb nut, all sides...but *not* the packing nut. It is a temp. differential between the two parts that will work here. Usually, I have found a tap or two was all that was needed to get things freed up.
I hope this helps. Remember to adjust for an approximate drip rate of 1 drip/10 sec. The important thing is the temp. that this coupling reaches under operations. Very carefully, place your hand on the packing gland while or just after operating (please be cautious here) the shaft for a longish period of time. It should be stone cold..ambient temp..no more. Adjust that drip rate as needed to attain this. Note that it takes time for a new packing to settle in after replacement, so you may need to have it drip a bit more at first. It also absorbs water for the first 12 hrs. or so, which will mean doing this twice over a weekend. Check it again a while later, and that should be it.
Write if there are more questions.
Otherwise,
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
demers@sgi.com
True enough..the magic tool needs to have the jamb nut and packing gland backed off to get at the darn thing.
Now, first, let me explain that my CD30 has the standard V-Drive on the end of a Volvo MD7B, so that the shaft packing gland is under the engine and behind it a bit. Also, the packing gland and jamb nut have a series of knurled reliefs cast into them. Your packing gland and jamb nut wrench should be engaging these ridges to make it work right.
What I have done in the past, when the jamb nut was indeed jambed on tight, was to take the biggest damn screwdriver (flat blade) you have, and a hammer. Set the screwdriver blade up against a jamb nut ridge on the bottom side (assuming that you approach this beastie from the starboard side of the boat), and start out with a few gentle taps on the screwdriver, progressing to a significant whomp (technical term, meaning to strike with abandon, but not hard enough to wreck thinigs)or two.
It should break loose, freeing the packing gland. If not, I would try a heat gun or hair dryer applied to the jamb nut, all sides...but *not* the packing nut. It is a temp. differential between the two parts that will work here. Usually, I have found a tap or two was all that was needed to get things freed up.
I hope this helps. Remember to adjust for an approximate drip rate of 1 drip/10 sec. The important thing is the temp. that this coupling reaches under operations. Very carefully, place your hand on the packing gland while or just after operating (please be cautious here) the shaft for a longish period of time. It should be stone cold..ambient temp..no more. Adjust that drip rate as needed to attain this. Note that it takes time for a new packing to settle in after replacement, so you may need to have it drip a bit more at first. It also absorbs water for the first 12 hrs. or so, which will mean doing this twice over a weekend. Check it again a while later, and that should be it.
Write if there are more questions.
Otherwise,
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Dale Weston wrote:Larry, I read with interest up to this point. I have been looking for a magic tool. . . actually I've bought the packing gland wrenches and discovered that you've got to be at least as smart as the wrench to make it work. My problem seems to be getting any leverage at all. So the boat is in the water, and I would just like to tweak it a bit. Is there magic to mastery of the wrenches that precedes use of the magic tool? Remove the muffler assembly? Thanks, DaleLarry DeMers wrote: I'm similarily sized and did my CD30 a few years ago. It takes a bit of time, but with the magic tool, it goes pretty fast and is not hard to do. The magic tool is . . .
demers@sgi.com
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Mike Thompson
Re: Stuffing Box
Larry's memo seems to describe the Spartan Notched Stuff Box Series.
which I see in the Sparten catalog.
The lock nut may be loosened with a hammer and screwdriver.
My CD28 does not have this and instead has two regular hex nuts
and so I need two wrenches.
Mike
"Haven"
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
which I see in the Sparten catalog.
The lock nut may be loosened with a hammer and screwdriver.
My CD28 does not have this and instead has two regular hex nuts
and so I need two wrenches.
Mike
"Haven"
Larry DeMers wrote: HI Dale,
True enough..the magic tool needs to have the jamb nut and packing gland backed off to get at the darn thing.
Now, first, let me explain that my CD30 has the standard V-Drive on the end of a Volvo MD7B, so that the shaft packing gland is under the engine and behind it a bit. Also, the packing gland and jamb nut have a series of knurled reliefs cast into them. Your packing gland and jamb nut wrench should be engaging these ridges to make it work right.
What I have done in the past, when the jamb nut was indeed jambed on tight, was to take the biggest damn screwdriver (flat blade) you have, and a hammer. Set the screwdriver blade up against a jamb nut ridge on the bottom side (assuming that you approach this beastie from the starboard side of the boat), and start out with a few gentle taps on the screwdriver, progressing to a significant whomp (technical term, meaning to strike with abandon, but not hard enough to wreck thinigs)or two.
It should break loose, freeing the packing gland. If not, I would try a heat gun or hair dryer applied to the jamb nut, all sides...but *not* the packing nut. It is a temp. differential between the two parts that will work here. Usually, I have found a tap or two was all that was needed to get things freed up.
I hope this helps. Remember to adjust for an approximate drip rate of 1 drip/10 sec. The important thing is the temp. that this coupling reaches under operations. Very carefully, place your hand on the packing gland while or just after operating (please be cautious here) the shaft for a longish period of time. It should be stone cold..ambient temp..no more. Adjust that drip rate as needed to attain this. Note that it takes time for a new packing to settle in after replacement, so you may need to have it drip a bit more at first. It also absorbs water for the first 12 hrs. or so, which will mean doing this twice over a weekend. Check it again a while later, and that should be it.
Write if there are more questions.
Otherwise,
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~
Dale Weston wrote:Larry, I read with interest up to this point. I have been looking for a magic tool. . . actually I've bought the packing gland wrenches and discovered that you've got to be at least as smart as the wrench to make it work. My problem seems to be getting any leverage at all. So the boat is in the water, and I would just like to tweak it a bit. Is there magic to mastery of the wrenches that precedes use of the magic tool? Remove the muffler assembly? Thanks, DaleLarry DeMers wrote: I'm similarily sized and did my CD30 a few years ago. It takes a bit of time, but with the magic tool, it goes pretty fast and is not hard to do. The magic tool is . . .
tmike@ma.ultranet.com
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Scott Ritchey
Re: Stuffing Box
I don't know if you have enough room in the '30 (I have a '27), but you can buy adjustable spanners at West or in the plumbing section of a hardware store that will work on the hex nuts. Also, I hear that a sheetrock screw (preferably a long one) makes a dandy tool to remove the old packing. Just screw it into the packing and pull. Allegedly, this works better (at least for the small shaft) than the corkscrew tool sold by west, etc.
If you do the job in the water, have everything handy so you don't take on too much water searching for tools and parts. Better yet, have a helper to hand you tools, etc. Getting into position is time consuming and painful if you hurry.
You can repack the stuffing box with the boat in the water. However, the boat must be hauled (and propeller shaft backed out) to install PSS or LasDrop type face seals.
Make sure the hose from the shaft log to the stuffing box is in good shape before you start the job. The last thing you want to do is crack a brittle hose with the boat in the water. Check the hose clamps too.
RitcheyVS@aol.com
If you do the job in the water, have everything handy so you don't take on too much water searching for tools and parts. Better yet, have a helper to hand you tools, etc. Getting into position is time consuming and painful if you hurry.
You can repack the stuffing box with the boat in the water. However, the boat must be hauled (and propeller shaft backed out) to install PSS or LasDrop type face seals.
Make sure the hose from the shaft log to the stuffing box is in good shape before you start the job. The last thing you want to do is crack a brittle hose with the boat in the water. Check the hose clamps too.
RitcheyVS@aol.com
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wayne grenier
Re: Stuffing Box
If it is not leaking excesssively I would leave it alone-or at best try to tighten the nut-if you want to hear a true horror story-on my cd 28 someone installed a "drivesaver" between the prop and tranny flange-this does not leave enough room to chnage the packing without pulling the engine ot the shaft-yikes! I went a minimum of 10 years-from when I bought the boat until now without changing the packing-and when I got it out it was still serviceable-I would not do this while the boat was in the water unless it was absolutely neccessary-you crack that hose-that cannot be replaced without puuling the shaft and you will be in deep do-do-just soak the nuts in wd-40 for a copuple of days-and use the spanner wrenches they sell or a pipe wrench-just remember your turning them in opposite directions-the nut closest to the engine needs to thread towards the engine and the lock nut to thread towards the stern-once they break free tighten by 1/4 turn and dont woory about it -Plan on doing the stuufing box-cutlass bearibng-propshaft and shaft log all at once sometime in the future-thats my advice-good luckPaul Scribner wrote: I'm planning to repack the stuffing box on my 1978 CD 28. It is not leaking excessively but I figure it has not been done in a decade and consider this prophylactic maintenance. My question to other 28 or 30 ers is how big a deal is it. At 6' 240 lbs. should I try it myself or be better off having the yard do it (pay for a smaller person).
Thanks,
Paul
s/v Serenitas
Hull 205
grenier@ma.ultranet,com
-
Norm Penick
Re: Stuffing Box
Ken,Ken Cave wrote: Believe me! You are too old and too big to do the job yourself (been there and tried to do that!)
I just had my local boat yard install a PSS unit which means no need to worry about a stuffing box-leakage-flange problems, etc.
Before you turn yourself into a pretzel, you might look at the above unit as an alternative. Expensive compared to the old stuffing box-but virtually no maintenance after installation.
Ken Cave
Cape Dory 28 #227
How expensive is "expensive"? Ball park. What maintenance IS still required?
Thanks,
Norm
norman@hal-pc.org
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Chris Humann
Re: magic tool
I've found that a straightened fish hook (with a barb)works quite well for removing old packing.