Bluewater CD27

Shipscarver · Post by **Shipscarver** » Apr 12th, '10, 02:38

I understand the original brochure for the 1980 CD27 said, "It will take you anywhere but across an ocean."

1. Why is the 28 a blue water boat and the 27 not

2. Can the 27 be made onto a blue water boat

3. Has anyone done a circumnavigation in a 27

Russell · Post by **Russell** » Apr 12th, '10, 04:28

Shipscarver wrote:I understand the original brochure for the 1980 CD27 said, "It will take you anywhere but across an ocean."
1. Why is the 28 a blue water boat and the 27 not
2. Can the 27 be made onto a blue water boat
3. Has anyone done a circumnavigation in a 27

1) Marketing
2) Absolutely
3) No idea, but CD25Ds have done major passages, no reason a CD27 cannot even if it hasnt (but I am willing to bet they have).

Remember, when these boats were made and marketed there were very different ideas about what an ocean crossing boat is and is not. For instance the Alberg 30 was designed as a club racer for the Chesapeake Bay and Great Lakes, offshore was not in mind, yet its a great offshore boat. People are sailing Bavarias and Beneteaus across oceans and around the world these days.

The idea of what is an ocean capable boat has become less conservative as we have come to understand better what boats can handle, have better and easier access to accurate weather information Even the smaller CDs are far more conservative and sea worthy designs then the average boat crossing oceans today.

There is some logic behind the idea that a larger boat is more seaworthy, but a poorly built and lightly built boat is still less seaworthy. Still I would take a CD27 across an ocean before I would take a 50' Beneteau across one.

Do the typical things one would do on any boat before taking it offshore. The design itsself its fully capable of it, but that does not mean the specific boat is.

Personally I would say any CD from the 25D/26D on up is a solid offshore boat when properly equipped and in proper condition with a competent skipper on board.

Warren Kaplan · Post by **Warren Kaplan** » Apr 12th, '10, 05:39

I read an article just a few years ago about a CD27 that went from California to Hawaii. They're great boats but obviously they have to be fitted out for sea duty like any other boat needs to be before going way offshore for a long period of time.

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Apr 12th, '10, 07:08

There are rumors of circumnavigation by a 25D, which we havn't been able to confirm. We do know that both the Atlantic and Pacific were crossed in a 25D though, just two different ones. To me, that adds up to a 25D being circumnavigation qualified.

As for what's ocean capable, I've had lots of blue water sailors tell me they'd hesitate going offshore in some of the larger, modern "clorox bottles," because of their relatively light construction.

There's a theory that these lighter, faster boats, in concert with improved weather forecasting and reporting, are safer because they can simply sail away from and avoid storms. I don't buy that one.

bgephart · Post by **bgephart** » Apr 12th, '10, 12:05

I remember reading an unhappy story in one of the sailing magazines about a CD-27 that hit a reef in the middle of nowhere, South Pacific. The singlehander eventually got it off as I recall. I also recall a story about a regular CD-25 (not D) refitting in Florida for a trip across the Atlantic, but I never heard the outcome of that. These are tough boats that can usually take more than their captains.

Shipscarver · Post by **Shipscarver** » Apr 13th, '10, 12:59

I love my 27 and have confidence in her, but my question runs more to the technical side. My boat has no vang, I will be adding a Schaffer, and I am considering moving the travler and switching from the peg/slider to a ball bearing travler. What else do I need to do to make her more ocean worthy. And I need pictures of improvements or sources for them.

JWSutcliffe · Post by **JWSutcliffe** » Apr 13th, '10, 14:56

In fact, what the original CD27 brochure said was "Sloop because that is the most popular and practical rig for almost every circumstance except for ocean crossings and racing rule beaters."

http://www.capedory.org/specs/brochures ... ducts.html

MFC · Post by **MFC** » Apr 13th, '10, 15:14

Shipscarver wrote:What else do I need to do to make her more ocean worthy. And I need pictures of improvements or sources for them.

I think John V wrote a book on this subject -- and while it isn't CD specific, I imagine it would be informed by his ownership of a CD27. Maybe it's worth checking out?

Bibster · Post by **Bibster** » Apr 14th, '10, 08:02

(as usual) on this very subject in this thread:

http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic ... e&start=15

wingreen · Post by **wingreen** » Jun 14th, '10, 23:09

Didn't Fenix, a CD 25, circumnavigate from Jacksonville, FL?

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Jun 15th, '10, 00:14

Hi Wingreen,

Maybe you have someone else in mind, but there is a fellow who circumnavigated and finished the journey a little over a year ago.

He is Fred Bickum on board his 28 foot Fenixrises.

Since than, he has sold that boat and bought a fixer-upper, 36 foot Sunshine. He is on his way again heading for the Pacific. He is, now, probably in the Galapagos.

Here is a shot of Fred, the keynote speaker at the CDSOA annual general meeting last Fall, held in Havre de Grace, Md.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/uO ... directlink

Take care,
O J

wingreen · Post by **wingreen** » Jun 15th, '10, 01:47

I probably got my circumnavigators mixed up, OJ. I thought he was on a Cd 25

The Patriot · Post by **The Patriot** » Jun 15th, '10, 04:38

Oswego John wrote: ... there is a fellow who circumnavigated and finished the journey a little over a year ago ... He is Fred Bickum on board his 28 foot Fenixrises ...

Some background on Fred's old boat. CD28 # 181 was for a long while berthed on the Toms River in NJ. The boat was purchased locally by my friend Bob in about 1984 and she was in, at best, medium condition. We never did learn much about her lineage prior to Bob's getting involved. At the time I also owned my CD 28 and together our families made many weekend trips and longer cruises in the Northeast over a period of about 6 years.

Bob worked incessantly on "Patriot." He was constantly coming up with ideas, some good and some otherwise. Eventually he made her into a cozy and comfortable coastal cruiser, and later sold her to purchase the Bristol 40 he still owns. I was involved in many of Bob's projects and therefore had the opportunity to become familiar with the issues and problems on this particular boat. There was at least one additional owner prior to Fred's purchase of the boat. I mention this background because Fred's web pages go into great detail on the changes he made to fit her for sea. Each of the problems Fred described reminded me of the many things we encountered and/or changed while Bob owned this boat.

This thread started out discussing the seaworthiness of these designs, but it's important to realize that Fred, an experienced professional boat builder, essentially transformed CD 28 # 181 into an entirely different breed of cat. His web pages detail the many changes, but I want to emphasize that his work affected and improved the basic structural integrity of this particular boat. He completely changed the hull-to-deck joint into a bulletproof structure, redid the rig to massively strong standards, gutted and totally redesigned the interior into an offshore configuration, etc., etc. While I was reading his pages for the first time I was repeating to myself that I could never have done such work to such high standards. It was only later that I learned of Fred's background building Bristol Channel Cutters and may other designs. When he was finished with "Fenix" she was ready to go anywhere, and of course that's exactly what she did.

I understand she now has a new owner somewhere in Florida, and my congratulations to him or her on their choice of a "Cape Dory 28" (well, not quite, but pretty close).

Bob Ohler · Post by **Bob Ohler** » Jun 15th, '10, 07:04

I have had bad luck with Schaeffer products and worse customer servicefrom them. They refuse to honor ANY waranty claim, no matter the application.
I would only purchase a Schaeffer product if it was the only way I could repair my boat to get home.

MFC · Post by **MFC** » Jun 15th, '10, 08:12

kerrydeare wrote:
Oswego John wrote: ... there is a fellow who circumnavigated and finished the journey a little over a year ago ... He is Fred Bickum on board his 28 foot Fenixrises ...
Some background on Fred's old boat. CD28 # 181 was for a long while berthed on the Toms River in NJ. . . .big snip. . . I understand she now has a new owner somewhere in Florida, and my congratulations to him or her on their choice of a "Cape Dory 28" (well, not quite, but pretty close).

That's a great post Armond. It is interesting to hear what you thought of the changes to Fenix. I've seen some of them criticized for (I imagine) breaking with posterity or cosmetic reasons, but it always seemed to me that Fred had a pretty clear idea of what he was trying to accomplish. I don't think I've seen many interior shots of KerryDeare (the nav station perhaps) you have kept it pretty much stock, no?

Your exploits are starting to add up as well. I understand they have started a new crusing club for you!

We will be very interested to hear about your trip north this year. I bought the Canadian planning chart 4001, but I think I will need the 2 or 3 in the next larger set in order to really follow along.

Best,
Matt

The Cape Dory Board

Bluewater CD27

Bluewater CD27

Re: Bluewater CD27

What Russell Said

CD-27 in South Pacific early 1990's

blue water CD27

Re: blue water CD27

John Vigor provided some great recommendations

What about FeNix?

oops

Fred's Boat (CD 28 # 181)

Shipscarver - try something other than Schaeffer

Re: Fred's Boat (CD 28 # 181)