Fuel filters

[Don S.]

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove



don@cliggott.com

[Dave Olson]

Look on the bottom of the filter to see if there is a hex shape
molded into the housing. That should help... I replaced my filters after 15 years and it looked like they could have gone another 15 years... Zero junk in either bowl... Truck stop fuel seems VERY clean.
Dave

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

Dave_olson@starkey.com

[don S.]

I recall that there is, thanks. I expect this will be an exercise in futility, but I'm pretty sure my knocking last year was a result of low fuel pressure and I'd like to be certain everything is clean.
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~

Look on the bottom of the filter to see if there is a hex shape
molded into the housing. That should help... I replaced my filters after 15 years and it looked like they could have gone another 15 years... Zero junk in either bowl... Truck stop fuel seems VERY clean.
Dave

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

don@cliggott.com

[Larry DeMers]

Don,
Why would a diesel knock when fuel-starved? Wouldn't it just not increase in speed due to the fuel flow being held back by the filtration? There is no dynamic timing on a diesel is there? So the timing would not advance under acceleration..leaving only increased fuel flow resulting in increased rpms. So if the fuel flow was cut back by your filters, it would seem to me that the engine just would not increase in speed past a certain point that the available fuel would require.

Now, my one -and only diesel is my CD30's which I have maintained for 10 years, including getting it rebuilt.
So, where did I miss the track?

Ceers!


Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

demers@sgi.com

[Craig Urquhart]

Don,
Had a Fram fuel filter servicing my Westerbeke 13. It was a metallic unit that was OEM . Don't recall any service issues, but changed over to a Racor filter with a clear base that allows easy viewing of water and sediment accumulation, should any occur.(none ever has)
I would definitely consider relocating the Fram to a more accessable location. And if you're like me and worry that your diesel could be gulping water at the most critical moment, you should consider a Racor type filter.

Craig Urquhart
Satu CD27 #272

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

Satu@gwi.net

[Craig Urquhart]

One more note....It's been years since I serviced the Fram, but my recollection was that my Fram was not a spin-off base type. Thought my bowl was removed by backing off a hex head screw located at the top of the unit. Could be wrong, but check it out.

Don,
Had a Fram fuel filter servicing my Westerbeke 13. It was a metallic unit that was OEM . Don't recall any service issues, but changed over to a Racor filter with a clear base that allows easy viewing of water and sediment accumulation, should any occur.(none ever has)
I would definitely consider relocating the Fram to a more accessable location. And if you're like me and worry that your diesel could be gulping water at the most critical moment, you should consider a Racor type filter.

Craig Urquhart
Satu CD27 #272

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

Satu@gwi.net

[Dennis Truett]

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

Hi Don! I also have a Weartebek 10/2 that I have taken apart my self. I also had the knocking problem. I don't know if its the same problem, but mine was bad injectors. AS it was explained to me... as injectors get older, they will break down and allow more fule in than normal. When the piston tries to compress a liquid instead of an air/fuel mixture... it creates a pounding sound. The large filter you speake of is not a fuel filter, its the crankcase oil filter. Have you ruined the filter trying to get it off? 1st try the filter remover that works like a large socket, and you can put a 3/8 socket breaker bar on it. As a last resort, I've seen people drive a large screwdriver through the filter and then turn the filter with the screwdriver. warning... If that doesn't work you will have ruined structural integrity of the filter and have to get it off with a chilse and a hammer. (not much room to work in for this method)

Also, as others have suggested, if you don't already have one, you sholld install a PRECOR filter/water seperator. Mine is mounted on the wall to the left of the motor. It is the first filter the fuel sees. The fuel then goes to the lift pump which has a filter and then to a final filter at the fuel pump. Hope this help!

In any case... good luck

let us know what did work.

Dennis Truett
CD26D



truettdc@frontiernet.net

[Ken Cave]

Are you sure that is the fuel? When I first started my MD7A It knocked like crazy the first time I tried it-thought it was going through the bottom!

What I found was a bad thermostat! Replaced it (though the former owner even rebuilt the top end-without even looking at the thermostat!) and it now purrs like a kitten!!

Ken Cave



bcave@whidbey.net

[don s.]

It's the fuel filter/water trap fer sure.
My knocking was cured by by-passing the fuel system and running clean fuel through the engine. I want to clean the entire system before launching this year.
Thanks for your comments

Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

Hi Don! I also have a Weartebek 10/2 that I have taken apart my self. I also had the knocking problem. I don't know if its the same problem, but mine was bad injectors. AS it was explained to me... as injectors get older, they will break down and allow more fule in than normal. When the piston tries to compress a liquid instead of an air/fuel mixture... it creates a pounding sound. The large filter you speake of is not a fuel filter, its the crankcase oil filter. Have you ruined the filter trying to get it off? 1st try the filter remover that works like a large socket, and you can put a 3/8 socket breaker bar on it. As a last resort, I've seen people drive a large screwdriver through the filter and then turn the filter with the screwdriver. warning... If that doesn't work you will have ruined structural integrity of the filter and have to get it off with a chilse and a hammer. (not much room to work in for this method)

Also, as others have suggested, if you don't already have one, you sholld install a PRECOR filter/water seperator. Mine is mounted on the wall to the left of the motor. It is the first filter the fuel sees. The fuel then goes to the lift pump which has a filter and then to a final filter at the fuel pump. Hope this help!

In any case... good luck

let us know what did work.

Dennis Truett
CD26D

[don s.]

Larry,
It was not a knock but, rather, a rapping sound. I had had the same noise at one point in a Vetus diesel which is VERY similar to the 10/2. Both were cured by clean fuel, and Ken's comment about bad injectors seems to fit as well. I remember a post from a year or so ago where someone had the engine rebuilt only to find the problem was with the injectors. My engine has less than 200 hours on it.
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~

Don,
Why would a diesel knock when fuel-starved? Wouldn't it just not increase in speed due to the fuel flow being held back by the filtration? There is no dynamic timing on a diesel is there? So the timing would not advance under acceleration..leaving only increased fuel flow resulting in increased rpms. So if the fuel flow was cut back by your filters, it would seem to me that the engine just would not increase in speed past a certain point that the available fuel would require.

Now, my one -and only diesel is my CD30's which I have maintained for 10 years, including getting it rebuilt.
So, where did I miss the track?

Ceers!


Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

[Don s.]

No, folks, I'm not spamming the site -- I guess I could have put all my replies in one basket, tho'

Yours was the old style. The new one spins off, but with a hex wrench, so I've learned from Scott Richey.

Don Sargeant
~COQUINA~
Learning more in Greenwich Cove

WHAT A SITE, Walt!

One more note....It's been years since I serviced the Fram, but my recollection was that my Fram was not a spin-off base type. Thought my bowl was removed by backing off a hex head screw located at the top of the unit. Could be wrong, but check it out.

Don,
Had a Fram fuel filter servicing my Westerbeke 13. It was a metallic unit that was OEM . Don't recall any service issues, but changed over to a Racor filter with a clear base that allows easy viewing of water and sediment accumulation, should any occur.(none ever has)
I would definitely consider relocating the Fram to a more accessable location. And if you're like me and worry that your diesel could be gulping water at the most critical moment, you should consider a Racor type filter.

Craig Urquhart
Satu CD27 #272

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

[Larry DeMers]

Don,

Absolutely..old fuel can cause poor firing, slow burning, smoking etc. Water mixed in the fuel will cause explosions at the injector tip, which shortens it's life, sometimes immediately. So yes, you are right. However, I thought that the original problem was a plugged filter delivering a low flow of fuel. That would probably not cause a rough running engine..just an engine that won't go faster when asked.

Dirty fuel is our enemy here, and it is always happening.
I made a fuel scrubber for our CD30. I had a similar fuel problem last year, and gained a tad of respect for clean fuel, after having to make an emergency 40 mile tour inland, looking for a truck stop with diesel,a spare tank, and a car to get me back to the marina. Mission accomplished..
The scrubber has a truck engine fuel pump (diesel) that is valved to bypass the engine to go into the tank directly, or parallel the lift pump into the engine if turned the other way. The fuel is *drawn* through a large 10 micron spin filter/water separator (Racor Turbine) then through a 1 micron Fram "Black Beauty" filter/water separator, then back to the tank again, for an hour or two or three, depending on the results (as seen in the spin filter bowl). I do this once a month during the spring and fall (temp change is the mechanism for condensation build up on the walls of your tank), and once during the summer if we are not using the engine much. I also am using a biocide and a water emulsifier and keep the tank topped up. So what else have you guys come up with to keep that fuel good and clean?

Larry DeMers
s/v deLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~Launching on Lake Superior in 3 days~~~

Larry,
It was not a knock but, rather, a rapping sound. I had had the same noise at one point in a Vetus diesel which is VERY similar to the 10/2. Both were cured by clean fuel, and Ken's comment about bad injectors seems to fit as well. I remember a post from a year or so ago where someone had the engine rebuilt only to find the problem was with the injectors. My engine has less than 200 hours on it.
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~

Don,
Why would a diesel knock when fuel-starved? Wouldn't it just not increase in speed due to the fuel flow being held back by the filtration? There is no dynamic timing on a diesel is there? So the timing would not advance under acceleration..leaving only increased fuel flow resulting in increased rpms. So if the fuel flow was cut back by your filters, it would seem to me that the engine just would not increase in speed past a certain point that the available fuel would require.

Now, my one -and only diesel is my CD30's which I have maintained for 10 years, including getting it rebuilt.
So, where did I miss the track?

Ceers!


Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

I went down to the yard this weekend to replace the three fuel filters on my Westerbeke 10/2. The lift pump and nearby fuel filter are unapproachable unless the large FRAM 1136 is removed first and it won't budge, even with a filter wrench. I was afraid I'd pull the mount out of the fiberglass. Judging by the way the engine ran last summer (see my earlier posts about rapping) these filters haven't been changed for a long time. Anyone have a clue what to do next? Thanks for your help...
Don Sargeant
~~COQUINA~~
CD25D # 189
probably clogged in Greenwich Cove

demers@sgi.com

[Larry DeMers]

A thermostat,or event he lack of a thermostat should not cause the engine to knock at all. It has nothing to do with that part of the engine. Now what I have experienced, and this may be what you did hear, was an increase in the loudness of the engine, maybe to the point of hearing the individual cylinder explosions louder, do to not having any water in the water lift muffler, which normally uses the exhaust to push the water out of the exhaust hose. When we start the engine first time, the muffler is dry, and so the sounds are quite a lot louder until the water level increases in the muffler, and the quieting takes place.

Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30

Are you sure that is the fuel? When I first started my MD7A It knocked like crazy the first time I tried it-thought it was going through the bottom!

What I found was a bad thermostat! Replaced it (though the former owner even rebuilt the top end-without even looking at the thermostat!) and it now purrs like a kitten!!

Ken Cave

demers@sgi.com