Documentation numbers

[Craig Scott]

I've just rec'd my documentation numbers from the USCG. Any ideas as to where and how to put them inside my CD-28? What have others done to get their numbers permanently fixed to their boats?
Thanks, Craig



rphscott@aol.com

[Duncan Maio]

I've just rec'd my documentation numbers from the USCG. Any ideas as to where and how to put them inside my CD-28? What have others done to get their numbers permanently fixed to their boats?
Thanks, Craig

On Remedy, the numbers are painted on the hull inside the starboard cockpit locker, just aft of the batteries (so they can be seen by merely opening the locker, without moving lots of stuff). The painted numbers are covered with epoxy.



dmaio@meganet.net

[john churchill]

I've just rec'd my documentation numbers from the USCG. Any ideas as to where and how to put them inside my CD-28? What have others done to get their numbers permanently fixed to their boats?
Thanks, Craig

On Remedy, the numbers are painted on the hull inside the starboard cockpit locker, just aft of the batteries (so they can be seen by merely opening the locker, without moving lots of stuff). The painted numbers are covered with epoxy.

i have the same on SKUA and it does not meet the letter of the law in that just painting over it would obliterate it. it must be marked so that removal will leave scars. if starting from scratch, i would carve the number into a wood bulkhead in the cockpit locker with a dremel tool, then paint over it using a stencil to pretty it up.
john

[Lee H. Hodsdon]

Craig,

On LOKI our 25D, I carved the numbers into a teak board which was screwed and epoxied into the bulkhead inside the companionway. I checked with the Coasties in Portsmouth, NH prior to using this and was assured it was acceptable. I have never been boarded so this statement has not been tested.

Lee



lhodsdon@nh.ultranet.com

[Rich]

I used 3" vinyl reflective numbers, stuck them to the hull under the starboard side berth and glassed over them. It cost about $5.00 and took about and took all of an hour over three days to get three coats on.

Rich - Shearwater, CD26



rpassmore42@hotmail.com

[John R.]

I've just rec'd my documentation numbers from the USCG. Any ideas as to where and how to put them inside my CD-28? What have others done to get their numbers permanently fixed to their boats?
Thanks, Craig

I've always used a double method. First I route the number into a glassed section of the hull or liner and contrast with darkened pigmented resin filling the routed numbers. I use a 1/8" bit. In the CD30 it is routed into the liner. For easy quick and dirty identification I also have a routed teak number board that is epoxied and screwed / bunged to bulkhead inside a galley cabinet. The numbers are highlighted with bronzing powder mixed with varnish. The entire board is varnished over for a final finish. In case the board is ever messed with the number will still be deeply engraved in the liner.

[Duncan Maio]

One more project for the list - I plan to use a dremel tool over the existing numbers, then fill and glass over it again.



dmaio@meganet.net

[Neil Gordon]

>>... it does not meet the letter of the law in that just painting over it would obliterate it. it must be marked so that removal will leave scars.<<

Carving the letters in the hull, they could be filled and glassed or painted over. What's the difference between that and painting over painted and epoxied numbers? There are lots of ways to cover numbers over!

The rules require that "alteration, removal or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area." Hiding the letters under paint, glass, behind a liner or whatever doesn't seem to involve alteration, removal or replacement.

Is this discussion based on actual interpretation of the rules or speculation?


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Chris Reinke CD330]

Neil - I agree with your interpretation - or rather the lack of specific guidelines as provided under the way the terms are stated. However, I was recently boarded for a USCG "Courtesy Inspection" and was advised that my current method of hull identification was "in violation of the maritime law". My numbers are on the hull in vinyl adhesive lettering, with indelible marker outlining them and varnish over everything. I was advised that the recommended method is to either carve them into the bulkhead or the hull. Alternatively the numbers could be engraved into a piece of wood and permanently affixed to the bulkhead or hull. I bit hard on my lip and did not suggest that such an interpretation of the law was absurd considering I could simply remove such a plaque and affix a new plaque with different numbers directly over the old location to mask any signs that the numbers had been changed.

The USCG (who I hold a great deal of respect for) did not issue me a violation. I think they were more impressed with the fact that my offshore liferaft and EPIRB had valid inspection stickers. I did not mention to them that the items had just been rented via BOAT/US for my cruise along the USEC.

In any event, I guess the law is subject to interpretation as I had undergone similar “courtesy inspections” and never received a complaint about the markings before.

>>... it does not meet the letter of the law in that just painting over it would obliterate it. it must be marked so that removal will leave scars.<<

Carving the letters in the hull, they could be filled and glassed or painted over. What's the difference between that and painting over painted and epoxied numbers? There are lots of ways to cover numbers over!

The rules require that "alteration, removal or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area." Hiding the letters under paint, glass, behind a liner or whatever doesn't seem to involve alteration, removal or replacement.

Is this discussion based on actual interpretation of the rules or speculation?


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167

[Neil Gordon]

>>My numbers are on the hull in vinyl adhesive lettering, with indelible marker outlining them and varnish over everything.<<

Ok... in that case, stripper will take the varnish off and the numbers can be removed with no trace. (Interesting how many times we see a thread about vinyl letters/numbers and how hard it is to get them off. <G>) That's not the same as if the letters were under glass/epoxy. There's no way to grind off the epoxy without leaving "scarring."

>>Alternatively the numbers could be engraved into a piece of wood and permanently affixed to the bulkhead or hull.<<

I agree... that's the easiest to change. All you need is patience and sandpaper... take the old numbers off and carve in new ones.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[John R.]

>>My numbers are on the hull in vinyl adhesive lettering, with indelible marker outlining them and varnish over everything.<<

Ok... in that case, stripper will take the varnish off and the numbers can be removed with no trace. (Interesting how many times we see a thread about vinyl letters/numbers and how hard it is to get them off. <G>) That's not the same as if the letters were under glass/epoxy. There's no way to grind off the epoxy without leaving "scarring."

>>Alternatively the numbers could be engraved into a piece of wood and permanently affixed to the bulkhead or hull.<<

I agree... that's the easiest to change. All you need is patience and sandpaper... take the old numbers off and carve in new ones.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167

I don't see how anyone is going to be able to perfectly match the textured gelcoat finish of the CD liners in the event they decide to grind out or otherwise remove routed numbers. Even if they match the texture (long shot at best) the gelcoat color and sheen will most likely not match. The whole idea is to engrave the numbers in a location that isn't obvious and have a second set where they are obvious.

[Neil Gordon]

>>I don't see how anyone is going to be able to perfectly match the textured gelcoat finish of the CD liners in the event they decide to grind out or otherwise remove routed numbers.<<

How would they match it if they tried to remove vinyl letters covered by epoxy?

>>The whole idea is to engrave the numbers in a location that isn't obvious and have a second set where they are obvious.<<

That's done for the HIN to discourage theft, but there's nothing about that in the rules for marking a documented vessel. What the Coast Guard says is as follows:

"The official number shown on the Certificate, preceded by the abbreviation "NO." must be marked in block-type Arabic numerals at least 3" high on some clearly visible interior structural part of the hull. The number must be permanently affixed so that alteration, removal, or replacement would be obvious and cause some scarring or damage to the surrounding hull area."

Why doesn't "affix" apply to vinyl letters, so long as they are are made permanent, which they would be if they were epoxied over. Nothing in the rules requires the letters to be engraved or carved.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com