We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
krport@aol.com
new sails for a 36 cutter
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
larry
Re: new sails for a 36 cutter
Ken,Ken wrote: We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
We bought new sails for our 33 last summer and went with a 95% jib and loose footed main. We have a 130 that is fairly new but given the conditions in San Francisco it will see little use. I am really sold on the loose footed main. When the wind cranks up you can flatten the sail with the outhaul which is very effective and if that is not enough you then can reef. Off the wind the sail has better shape than a conventional shelf foot. Another benefit is that the sail is cheaper to build.
Larry
lmace@gt.com
-
Joe
Re: new sails for a 36 cutter
We sail a cutter rigged CD330 with a Hood in-mast furling system. When we bought the boat, it had a 130% roller furling genny and a roller furling staysail. We first replaced the staysail with a Berrig Camber Spar system which has a half-wish bone boom that fits inside the sail so that when you tack, the staysail holds its shape as you come about.Ken wrote: We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
Having trouble sailing close-hauled, we talked to several sailing specialist up and down the coast of Maine. The general opinion was that the forestay was too far forward for the boat to fight the bulk of the drag from a roller furler system so we trashed the genny and had North Sails replace it with the original, non-furling, high clew yankee. The boat’s performance has increased at least 50%
As to the loose footed main, there are good points and bad points and, over a pint of grog, they are argued from harbor to marina across the coast of Maine. If we were the original owners, the main would be on a boom furler and not on an in mast furler.
Good luck,
Joe
tgjournal@gestalt.org
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: new sails for a 36 cutter
Ken,
I still sail with the original sails on my 1982 CD-36 and find that the boat performs well. The only major complaint is that the boat has a good deal of wether helm. A smaller main would allow you to carry a balance rig in stronger air. On the flip side you can just reef sooner if you have the original sail plan. The boat performs well with the staysail, main and a 110% yankee on the roller furler. Always keep the staysail up when working to windward and always keep it down when going down wind. The staysail is essential for making the yankee tack cleanly.
The boat also has a larger (approx. 130%) yankee, but it does not sail quite as well in most conditions with the larger sail. The larger sail only gets used once every few years when the 110 has to come off for a repair. The larger sail is harder to tack and does not fly well when deeply reefed (furled). There is a great deal of backwinding on the larger sail behind the staysail when close hauled.
I am toying with the idea of a wire-luffed drifter for very light air days.
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
I still sail with the original sails on my 1982 CD-36 and find that the boat performs well. The only major complaint is that the boat has a good deal of wether helm. A smaller main would allow you to carry a balance rig in stronger air. On the flip side you can just reef sooner if you have the original sail plan. The boat performs well with the staysail, main and a 110% yankee on the roller furler. Always keep the staysail up when working to windward and always keep it down when going down wind. The staysail is essential for making the yankee tack cleanly.
The boat also has a larger (approx. 130%) yankee, but it does not sail quite as well in most conditions with the larger sail. The larger sail only gets used once every few years when the 110 has to come off for a repair. The larger sail is harder to tack and does not fly well when deeply reefed (furled). There is a great deal of backwinding on the larger sail behind the staysail when close hauled.
I am toying with the idea of a wire-luffed drifter for very light air days.
Matt
Ken wrote: We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
-
larry
Re: weather helm
Matt,
I would quess the weather helm you are feeling is the product of a blown out main and jib. As the sail ages the draft moves aft and is next to impossible to flatten out. When we bought our CD33 the sials were 19 years old and the weather helm was terrible. We replace the sails and the difference was amazing. The difference new sails will make is noticeable and why most racers will replace them each year. This is not necessary for a cruising boat but after several years of hard use they tend to blow out.
Larry
lmace@gt.com
I would quess the weather helm you are feeling is the product of a blown out main and jib. As the sail ages the draft moves aft and is next to impossible to flatten out. When we bought our CD33 the sials were 19 years old and the weather helm was terrible. We replace the sails and the difference was amazing. The difference new sails will make is noticeable and why most racers will replace them each year. This is not necessary for a cruising boat but after several years of hard use they tend to blow out.
Larry
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Ken,
I still sail with the original sails on my 1982 CD-36 and find that the boat performs well. The only major complaint is that the boat has a good deal of wether helm. A smaller main would allow you to carry a balance rig in stronger air. On the flip side you can just reef sooner if you have the original sail plan. The boat performs well with the staysail, main and a 110% yankee on the roller furler. Always keep the staysail up when working to windward and always keep it down when going down wind. The staysail is essential for making the yankee tack cleanly.
The boat also has a larger (approx. 130%) yankee, but it does not sail quite as well in most conditions with the larger sail. The larger sail only gets used once every few years when the 110 has to come off for a repair. The larger sail is harder to tack and does not fly well when deeply reefed (furled). There is a great deal of backwinding on the larger sail behind the staysail when close hauled.
I am toying with the idea of a wire-luffed drifter for very light air days.
Matt
Ken wrote: We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
lmace@gt.com
-
Matt Cawthorne
Re: weather helm
Larry,
The age of the sails may play a part, but every CD-36 owner that I have talked to about the subject has indicated the same problem. I think that it is in part due to the tender nature of the boat. It has a good range of positive stability, but that stability comes at the cost of a design that gets the stability from ballast rather than hull form. I am not complaining. I prefer a boat designed that way. The weather helm is just an artifact of that type of design. When I put the first reef in the main it can be flattened almost perfectly flat. If there is much wind there is still lots of weather helm. It may well be made worse by the fact that I allow lots of headstay sag to help on light air days.
My sail trim strategy has tended towards keeping the sails full and reefing the main to keep the rig balanced. The boat seems to perform well compared to other boats that we sail near and the sails do not get out of shape quite so quickly if reefed early. The biggest drawback of this strategy is when sailing to windward in gusty conditions and lots of chop. The boat does not develop much power between gusts with the sails reefed.
Moving the draft forward is not a problem on my mainsail. For some reason it's shape (while being on the full side)is not what I would call baggy.
Thanks for the input. I will experiment with flattening the sails to control the helm this spring. I've been considering new sails, but they are not in the financial picture this year. All of the spare bucks and all of my spare time were blown on a properly insulated icebox and refrigeration system. Besides, it is kind of fun going faster than my friends who have faster boats, new sails feathering props,etc. with my boat, a fixed 3 bladed prop and old sails.
Thanks,
Matt
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net
The age of the sails may play a part, but every CD-36 owner that I have talked to about the subject has indicated the same problem. I think that it is in part due to the tender nature of the boat. It has a good range of positive stability, but that stability comes at the cost of a design that gets the stability from ballast rather than hull form. I am not complaining. I prefer a boat designed that way. The weather helm is just an artifact of that type of design. When I put the first reef in the main it can be flattened almost perfectly flat. If there is much wind there is still lots of weather helm. It may well be made worse by the fact that I allow lots of headstay sag to help on light air days.
My sail trim strategy has tended towards keeping the sails full and reefing the main to keep the rig balanced. The boat seems to perform well compared to other boats that we sail near and the sails do not get out of shape quite so quickly if reefed early. The biggest drawback of this strategy is when sailing to windward in gusty conditions and lots of chop. The boat does not develop much power between gusts with the sails reefed.
Moving the draft forward is not a problem on my mainsail. For some reason it's shape (while being on the full side)is not what I would call baggy.
Thanks for the input. I will experiment with flattening the sails to control the helm this spring. I've been considering new sails, but they are not in the financial picture this year. All of the spare bucks and all of my spare time were blown on a properly insulated icebox and refrigeration system. Besides, it is kind of fun going faster than my friends who have faster boats, new sails feathering props,etc. with my boat, a fixed 3 bladed prop and old sails.
Thanks,
Matt
larry wrote: Matt,
I would quess the weather helm you are feeling is the product of a blown out main and jib. As the sail ages the draft moves aft and is next to impossible to flatten out. When we bought our CD33 the sials were 19 years old and the weather helm was terrible. We replace the sails and the difference was amazing. The difference new sails will make is noticeable and why most racers will replace them each year. This is not necessary for a cruising boat but after several years of hard use they tend to blow out.
Larry
Matt Cawthorne wrote: Ken,
I still sail with the original sails on my 1982 CD-36 and find that the boat performs well. The only major complaint is that the boat has a good deal of wether helm. A smaller main would allow you to carry a balance rig in stronger air. On the flip side you can just reef sooner if you have the original sail plan. The boat performs well with the staysail, main and a 110% yankee on the roller furler. Always keep the staysail up when working to windward and always keep it down when going down wind. The staysail is essential for making the yankee tack cleanly.
The boat also has a larger (approx. 130%) yankee, but it does not sail quite as well in most conditions with the larger sail. The larger sail only gets used once every few years when the 110 has to come off for a repair. The larger sail is harder to tack and does not fly well when deeply reefed (furled). There is a great deal of backwinding on the larger sail behind the staysail when close hauled.
I am toying with the idea of a wire-luffed drifter for very light air days.
Matt
Ken wrote: We are 3rd year owners of a 36' cutter, hull # 8, which came with an external furling main ( loss of approx. 25% sail area ) and a 150 genoa cut last year to a 130.We are in the market for a whole sail refit and would be interested in opinions regarding an optimum sail plan. We find it a struggle to tack in light air with our current 130....should we go 110 or 90 ? Any thoughts on conversion to sloop rig with a reef in the furled headsail? Our first inclination is to stay cutter...and of course we can't wait to experience a new main with all its sail area void of the soon to be junked ( unless someone out there wants it ) external furling system. Any thoughts on loose footed main? Thanks.
mcawthor@bellatlantic.net