Hand cranking 1GM

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

The trick to getting any diesel to start is having enough compression. The trick to creating enough compression is having a fast enough cranking RPM especially on a tired engine. The decompression lever allows you to get the cranking RPMs up but then you need to throw the lever the other way to get enough compression to burn the fuel.

We rarely used ether in our shop. The drug of choice was brake cleaner but since there are so many blends of this stuff I cant vouch for all of it. Brake cleaner was less volatile then the ether. WD 40 is a good choice if your engine is not to worn out, otherwise it might not work.

One last thing. Usually about this time of year we would get calls for a diesel that would not start. If there are empty cans of ether laying around there would be a good chance they washed the cylinder walls down removing the film of oil that helped the rings seal. In this case you can crank all day long and it may not start. Some mechanics might use this opportunity to sell you a rebuild but for us we fogged the cylinder walls down with a squirt bottle and ATF while the engine is cranking. This boost the compression and usually started the engine.

[John Vigor]

If there are empty cans of ether laying around there would be a good chance they washed the cylinder walls down removing the film of oil that helped the rings seal. In this case you can crank all day long and it may not start. Some mechanics might use this opportunity to sell you a rebuild but for us we fogged the cylinder walls down with a squirt bottle and ATF while the engine is cranking. This boost the compression and usually started the engine.

Kevin, if you crank with wide-open thottle, won't the unburned fuel drip down and seal the rings? In which case, why is there a need for ATF? Or is the amount of unburned fuel too small to help?

John V.

[John Vigor]

Liz would love to have a rechargeable hair dryer on board, Steve.

Steve there are hair curlers that work off small gas cylinders. I think they're made for lady backpackers who desire to look more glamorous than their grubby companions. My wife uses one on the boat just so she won't look as grubby as me. I don't know if there's a hairdryer version, though. It would have to produce a stream of hot air.

I have also heard of people lighting a piece of paper and letting it get sucked in the air intake. I imagine that would set off a combustion cycle or two. A propane torch would do the trick, of course. Something to think about when you're stuck in the boondocks in icy weather.

Cheers,

John V.

[Steve Laume]

Liz would love to have a rechargeable hair dryer on board, Steve.

Steve there are hair curlers that work off small gas cylinders. I think they're made for lady backpackers who desire to look more glamorous than their grubby companions. My wife uses one on the boat just so she won't look as grubby as me. I don't know if there's a hairdryer version, though. It would have to produce a stream of hot air.

I have also heard of people lighting a piece of paper and letting it get sucked in the air intake. I imagine that would set off a combustion cycle or two. A propane torch would do the trick, of course. Something to think about when you're stuck in the boondocks in icy weather.

Cheers,

John V.

So John, your telling me that Liz should try using a propane torch to dry her hair? I'll pass that by her and she if it entices her to spend more time on the boat, Steve.

[Oswego John]

When working on and trying to start balky, recalcitrant, stubborn engines (depending on size and HP), sometimes we use a 1/2" electric drill motor or an 18 V or higher voltage battery powered drill motor.

We fit on the drill's shaft a socket of the same size as that which holds the flywheel to the crankshaft. Pull the decompression lever and let 'er rip. When she is spinning rapidly, release the decompression lever.

Predetermine the correct CW or CCW rotation. (clockwise, or counter clockwise)

Happy varooom.
O J

[Maine Sail]

As others have said ether is a no, no in diesels especially small light weight ones. I have seen a 10 hour old engine, with a fuel line air leak, get destroyed by an owner with ether thinking this would fix it. he "fixed it" alright to the tune of an additional 4500 dollars...

The real problem when you tear an ether fed engine down is that the ring lands, the area of piston in-between the rings, fails and cracks, thus destroying the cylinder walls and pistons. Ether is far to volatile for use in a diesel even in small doses. Just check the pick up truck forums and you find a bunch of guys who did not know better who destroyed a nice diesel. There was recently a guy over on Sailnet with a Yanmar who used it "just once or twice" then after this cold weatehr start the engine was very hard starting and when compression was checked it was found to be in need of a rebuild.

WD-40 will work in a pinch, I've seen it work, though John brings up a good question, but I personally have never actually used it on any of my own motors.

I have only ever been able to hand crank, and successfully start, an engine that was already warm. I know Chuck Norris could probably do it, I mean when he does push ups the world actually moves down, but I could not.. I've never met to many people whom have had much success when cold.

Give it a try, and let us know any tricks you discover, but please do avoid ether...

[S/V Necessity]

I had an old beater pick up back in the 80's that had a some failed glow plugs in it. It needed starting fluid to start in the winter, and by the time I got rid of it (frame was rusted badly) It needed starting fluid pretty much anytime except in the summer. It ended up serving several more years on a relatives farm, and starting fluid was used regularly. So this truck received a steady dose of starting fluid for probably about 4 years, perhaps 5 or 6.

Plus I worked in a quarry where starting fluid was used regularly to start all sorts of equipment, never had a problem there either.

All that said, I do know people regularly destroy engines with it, and I do know it's largely a result of the "if a little is good more is better" mentality. If you use too much starting fluid you WILL destroy an engine. If a little doesn't work, DO NOT USE MORE.

Perhaps mainsail has something when he says it's particularly bad for small diesels. I would guess that's because it's easier to over dose a small engine. Even though I have used it ALOT with great success, I still view it as taking a chance.

[trapper]

Here is a video of Saga Blue's engine running after being crank started. She had just been towed to the dock after 3 years, alone, on a mooring on the Ashley River in Charleston! No working battery on board and water just over the sole!

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb14 ... D00076.flv

I was there but do not know what went into staring the engine for the first time in 3 years other than about an hours worth of fooling with it then using the crank about 6 rounds, kind of like a cranky outboard. And, then she started. It sounded pretty good too. Problems were to follow ( a few weeks later)-- most resolved at this point! But, 1gm can be cranked by a 71 year old guy!

[Kevin Kaldenbach]

John I guess that might work. I have used ATF for a long time. One advantage would to get more lubrication into the combustion chamber faster. Considering how fine the mist is from a nozzle you would have to crank longer to get enough fuel into the chamber. Also I don’t know the viscosity of diesel but it is most likely to be lighter then the 10 or so weight of ATF. It might work it way past the rings. Sorry it took so long to respond. Just got to Mexico from a sailing trip across the Gulf.

[gates_cliff]

OK, was at my boat today and couldn't get it to start. I had recalled reading (maybe this thread) that using ether or starting spary was not a good idea. My boat is in Deale MD and it's been a little cool here lately, but not freezing.

I have a Westerbeke. Can someone give me an idea of how to use the hair dryer trick?

Thanks,

Cliff

[okawbow]

If you have 120vac at the boat, use a "heatgun" aimed into the air intake when you crank the motor. It will even start a wornout diesel with bad rings. I know, because I used it to start an old Albin 20hp diesel before I rebuilt the motor. The heatgun forces hot air under pressure into the air intake and acts a little like a turbo charger.

I have also used a propane torch with good results.

I have also hand crank started my YSE8 diesel in cold weather. It starts faster with the hand crank than with the electric starter. On my current boat, I installed an electric drive. No fumes, little noise, and no oil changes or winterizing.

[Russell]

OK, was at my boat today and couldn't get it to start. I had recalled reading (maybe this thread) that using ether or starting spary was not a good idea. My boat is in Deale MD and it's been a little cool here lately, but not freezing.

I have a Westerbeke. Can someone give me an idea of how to use the hair dryer trick?

Thanks,

Cliff

It hasnt been THAT cool in Deale recently, your problem is likely elsewhere.

[Oswego John]

Cliff,

As Russell mentioned, I agree that it hasn't been cold enough to affect starting your Diesel engine. If a little cooler than normal weather is causing trouble in starting, it might be telling you that other engine troubles are on the horizon.

As we know, for an internal combustion engine to develop power, three major things must be present. The engine must have fuel, air and compression. Of course, there are other things that can cause hard starting, but the above are basic requirements. If any one or combination of these are missing, the engine will not start.

Since the Diesel engine doesn't have an electrical system for fuel ignition, proper, high compression is mandatory

Without getting too deep into the subject, to simplify things, I suggest that you to check to see that all three things are present. Check for fuel in your tank and also present at the injectors. Check the fuel filter and pump as well as the air filter. If everything seems normal, do a compression check on the engine.

Is the starting battery fully charged to spin the engine over at a normal rpm to establish compression? You didn't mention if the starting motor is spinning normally or is it turning sluggishly.

Check the easy things first. Check to see if you have full voltage at the starter while it is in operation. Clean and brighten up the starting electrical contacts, especially the ground.

I have no knowledge of your engine's condition, its age or the operating hours on it. I will say that engines can get tired. Valves and rings can wear in time, especially if there has been a history of poor water cooling and overheating. Check for carbon in the water/exhaust riser.

These are just a few of the basic things to test for hard starting. I wish you good luck in trouble shooting your problem.

O J

[rtbates]

I've hand cranked our 1GM many times...Never thought about keeping the seacock closed until it fires.. Fortunately, it has always fired right away...

I do like having a third hand to hold the compression lever while I use both hands to crank...Allows me to crank much faster with less stain on my old arms...

[Bob Ohler]

Cliff, you may have glow plugs on your Westerbeke. Some Westerbekes have them. I have spoken with other CD sailors that needed to check the current flow at these plugs. Use a multi tester. I remember one CD owner that found he needed to replace the relay switch located on the engine and that immediatley solved his problem.

I hand cranked my old 1GM and it did work, but I agree, that a third hand was helpful handling the compresssion release.