Eco-friendly bottom paint

[mandochef]

I'm looking for the best eco-friendly anti-fouling paint to apply next spring. I would like something with no copper or anything else that will be harmful to marine life.
Thanks.

[John Vigor]

I'm afraid the whole idea of copper paint is that it kills marine life such as barnacles. But please remember that barnacles have a choice. They don't HAVE to attach themselves to your copper bottom. The smart ones, the ones that are going to pass on their genes, avoid copper bottoms, just as you avoid eating poisonous foods or sticking your head in a bucket of bleach.

Remember, too, that we kill millions of fish every day, not to mention cattle, sheep, pigs, and poultry. Deliberately kill them. If you think about it, we don't seem to have been put on this earth to be eco-friendly, but to survive the only way we can, by eating other plants and creatures. And by discouraging barnacles from sticking to our bottoms, of course.

John V.

[Raymond]

Unlike the barnacles, we do not have a choice. All of the world is either toxic or contaminated. I think that I will cast my lot with the eco-friendly. Maybe then we will be able to pass on our genes, like the smart barnacles.

[EO]

Suffice it to say that barnacles will be barnacles and do what they do. Paint prevents this. There are few modern alternatives. Luckily, this is a boat which can easily be hauled out and cleaned every season. The best "green" practice would be not to use any paint and manually remove the barnacles on a regular schedule. Minimal use of paint would reduce the amount of labor. Same concept if everyone walked instead of driving, but that just isn't going to happen anytime soon. There are many analogies to this paradox.
Hopefully this thread will end before people get overly polarized, or maybe it will lead to people thinking of ways to improve.
And try to remember that we sailors enjoy one of the oldest and (arguably) "greenest" way of getting around the world. Peace, and fair winds.

[Troy Scott]

Well,... I try. I try to take care of the planet like I would my boat, because really, that's what it is. This planet is our small ship carrying us through otherwise uninhabitable space. We need to try to keep it nice, especially since we can't get off! Part of caring for the Earth is making sure she continues to work well as our ship through the Cosmos. There are many aspects of caring for the Earth that are analogous to keeping barnacles from attaching themselves to our boats. Painting poison on the bottoms of our boats may be "unnatural", and it's definitely unkind to the barnacles, but it is necessary. It's like getting rid of ant beds in the yard, or a wasp nest on the porch, or a mouse in the kitchen. We're just protecting our space. It's not like we are going far and wide to be destructive and mean. I don't believe we have the right to impose on any creature unless it is necessary. Enough rambling! I've got to get back to the rudder work!

[Dick Barthel]

One can imagine state governments or the federal government banning its use at some point regardless of your viewpoint. I admit to using it. Thankfully, judging by my untreated prop last summer, barnacles do not appear to be an endangered species.

Dick

[Jim Walsh]

I try not to be needlessly harmful toward the environment but I draw the line at the primordial ooze which spends its life trying to foul my bottom. This stuff will still be here after the apocalypse. I went from Micron CSC to Micron Extra with Irgarol and I did notice less scum than previous years. I never even bothered to give the bottom a scrub in mid-summer as I usually do. I'll bet I used less diesel (admit it guys, we all use the iron genny sometimes) because my bottom was clean and that increased my hull speed.....now that's got to be good for the environment. Maybe Al Gore will send me a thank you note. Just maybe he'll drop it out the window of his Gulfstream V as he flies over my house at 35,000 feet and save the energy it took to produce a stamp!

[S/V Necessity]

I'm afraid that John *may* have thrown out a bit of a red herring (atleast IMO) of course in his generally crafty fashion It's not the deliberate killing of barnacles attached to your hull that's got *some* people up in arms. It's the unintentional and indiscriminate killing of all invertebrate life, downstream of your hull, if the paint wears off... (weather the latter is the case or not I think is the real question)

Concern for being "eco-friendly" does not always indicate nor require a reluctance of "eating other plants and creatures." In fact I would think it would be exactly the opposite. After all I love to eat oysters, yet I suspect most people wouldn't feel comfortable eating them if they were gathered within a marina...

However, I'm 100% with John, on the general idea that death is a good and noble end, to any life form that decides to attach it self to my hull.

[Duncan Maio]

http://www.greenboatstuff.com and http://www.bottompaintstore.com both have options.

I have no idea how well they work. In an effort to strike the proper balance, I have opted to use an ablative (copper) paint, but I have found that about every other year I can just buy a quart to touch up the waterline, keel and any bare patches (the old stuff underneath sometimes flakes off during prep. Less paint = less harm, I figure, and the bottom is no fuzzier for it.

I also only scrape to prep for paint (except the aforementioned bare patches), use a drop cloth, and take care not to spill and dispose of everything properly.

[Dick Barthel]

http://www.greenboatstuff.com and http://www.bottompaintstore.com both have options.

I also only scrape to prep for paint (except the aforementioned bare patches), use a drop cloth, and take care not to spill and dispose of everything properly.

I do the same as is required by my boatyard so that the copper does not end up on the ground to drain into the water where the freshing painted copper-ladened hull will be sitting shortly abalating away. All makes perfect sense as long as following that required process allows us to keep doing it.

In Ct marinas are having to install catch systems at great expense for the area where the hulls are power washed when pulled if they want to fly the eco compliant flag. I think this is a first step towards eventual prohibition, at least in our state.

5 years ago my hull was sanded clean and a barrier coat applied. I have only used micron extra. Since it is ablative [in the sense of erosion] not much really needs to be done to it since if you don't over apply it there is no build up. I lightly wet sand for purchase and apply the new coat without any real fuss. This step is arguably not even necessary. There is no dust and only a little copper hitting the ground...which must happen in a good rain any how.

Maybe some bright chemist will come up with a solution.

[Troy Scott]

The solution is, of course, a permanent coating to which nothing can stick, and which is also not poisonous. Who could complain about that? Teflon frying pans were invented long ago. Teflon may not be the solution, but whatever we end up with will work on the same principle. It would be nice if this substance would also prevent blisters!

[Oswego John]

It's funny/odd how you heard something a long time ago and eons later it pops into mind.

When I was a child, my grandfather mentioned something that meant little to me at the time. I suppose that way back in my young mind, his statement must have registered, maybe under Misc.

He told me what they did on the river and canal barges throughout Europe. There was no fiberglass then and very little steel, most of the vessels were constructed of wood. (and no treated wood, either).

There was no barnacle problem to speak of in the interior waters. Most of the problem occurred when the barges went down river to the seaports and salt water.

So what did they do? He said that they trowelled some kind of hot pitch or tar on the bottom, including the seams. In my mind, I don't think that the word ecology had yet been coined in that day and age.

I haven't the slightest idea if pine tar is toxic. It might be. I wonder about natural, la brea type tar, is it toxic? I have heard that most, if not all, wooden pilings have been pressure impregnated with creosote. Not very green, eh?

Thank goodness for pump-out stations.
O J

[Jim Buck]

OJ,

Pine tar originated about six centuries ago as a preservative for ships. Sweden was known for its high quality tar which was extracted with regulated heat from the common pine (Pinus sylvestris); colloquially referred to as "Scotch pine" in North America. Scotch pine is not native to North America but is the most widely distributed pine in Eurasia. The roots were the source for the tar which has concentrations of phenols and turpenes. Probably not "eco-friendly" but perhaps more "natural"? Creosote adds cresol and is largely derived from wood products also with more phenols and turpenes. La Brea tar was probably petroleum based although I don't know much about it. Thank you for your grandfather's advice and congratulations on your well deserved Alberg Fellowship!

Jim

[John Danicic]

Cold, fresh water.

According to the records that came with the boat, Mariah has not had her bottom painted since 1997. The bottom though worn looking, is still serviceable. Other then a little green waterline slim which is easily power sprayed off, nothing grows on it.

The average temperature of Lake Superior is 40 degrees.

I would say that is as green as it gets.

Sail on

John Danicic
CD36 - Mariah - #124
Lake Superior - The Apostle Islands
CDSOA # 655

[Troy Scott]

John,

Now you've got me thinking of a way to chill the water in my slip. (not really....). But seriously, there was a time when chilling parts of Interstate 20 through Mississippi was seriously considered. That's another story, and not a particularly green one.