Trailer advice for a 27

[smcnabb]

Dear Cape Dory experts,
I have a Cape Dory 27 in Key Largo. I am considering buying a new galvanized, double axle Magic-Tilt trailer for $5,000 and towing her to Colorado, where I live. Does anyone know the approximate weight of a 27?
Any other advice will be appreciated.

[Sandy D.]

smcnabb,
The specs say 7500lbs. Just curious.......where abouts in Colorado are you heading? Have fun,

-Sandy

[J D]

When I bought my 27 it was in WS and came with a trailor the PO built. I pulled it to southern CA where I launched it. The trailer weight is around 10,000 lbs and the trailer was close to 2,000. A 3/4 ton truck will do it. The 7,500 lb displacement is not the weight of the boat. I don't know about the tilt part. It's not a boat that will trailor launch that I can see. Any way your trailer had better be hell for stout.

[Oswego John]

Any way your trailer had better be hell for stout.

.....and have its own brakes.

O J

[John Vigor]

The 7,500 lb displacement is not the weight of the boat.

What do you think it is, then?

John V.

[Duncan Maio]

I found this on the wooden boat forum. I have no idea who these guys (Ross, Charles and Kevin) are:

"I wouldn't stick my oar in, but it's something to do while a long-running program completes - and I was trained as a naval architect, even though I've been a programmer for decades...

Charles is (naturally) correct that displacement is a volumetric parameter. For Kevin, in practical terms having to do with getting trailer size right, you can use displacement as weight. If your boat as weighed comes out a bit different than 1309#, it's not likely to be different enough to matter for that purpose.

Any motionless object floating in still water will displace a volume of water which weighs exactly the same as the object.

Standard displacements on plans or certificates are, as stated above, computed from volumetric measurements at specific waterlines. If the actual vessel is afloat, motionless, at one of these waterlines then the above statement about volume/weight will be correct, within the accuracy limits of the volume computation.

Displacement became a standard characteristic of ships in the mid -> late 19th and early 20th centuries because it was unambiguous and could be computed exactly. For some purpose, it was and is favored over the much older characteristic of tonnage.

Tonnage, despite the connotations of the word, is not a measure of weight (at least, not in naval architecture). It is a measure of volume, and specifies the usable cargo volume of a vessel. Tonnage computations go back some centuries; indeed, the word 'ton' itself derives from 'tun' - a large wine barrel. Historically, there were many formulas which computed (or, more accurately, estimated) tonnage, such as the Thames Measurement rule. Port and canal fees were assessed on the basis of tonnage, so it became advantageous to figure out ways to gain a low tonnage measurement on a maximum of actual usable cargo volume. Thus tonnage was not precisely related to the geometry of a ship.

Displacment became important with the advent of iron ships, when it became more and more important to be able to precisely relate the volumetric (hull form) characteristics of a ship, and its weight. Early experience in iron ship building is full of errors in this relationship, where ships floated 1 or 2 feet deeper than intended, or trimmed very badly. Indeed a royal yacht built in the mid 1800s which had very poor weight control during building capsized and sank on launching.

So, the importance of displacement is more in the effort a designer must go through to get weight and geometry in a correct relationship. When this is done well, then a ship (or boat) floats on its designed waterline when launched (for the launch condition). My own boat trimmed aft about 3" too deep; I move some weights, then repainted the waterline. I've seen a boat built to a colonial-era design, but with poorly controlled weights, float on its lines aft and 28" high forward."

[J D]

Thanks for the correction. I got this from the surveyor I used. When I ask about the trailer wt. He told me to add about 10%. Maybe I didn't understand hem right. It's good that those on the board catch me when I run off the track. I stand corrected John and duncan.

[Klem]

The reason that your surveyor probably told you to add a bit was that displacement is published by your manufacturer ignoring the fact that you as an owner will invariably add stuff causing the boat to displace more. Most people don't add a whole lot of stuff but it may add up to a few hundred pounds on a 30 footer.

If you are trailering, you probably want to think about how much is in your tanks. Water is 8lbs/gallon so it adds up really quick.

[mgphl52]

When we had Tranquil launched, the lift operator said she was 22,000 lbs (with 2 people & some gear aboard, her 80 gal water tank was empty though). This is for a vessel with a "designed" displacement of 15,400 lbs. So, I don't trust "specs" for weight from "displacement" numbers...

As for trailering a CD27, erring to the gross extreme of extra weight would be far better than the opposite, IMHO.

-michael

PS: NO! The two of us aboard do not even weigh 500 lbs combined...

[smcnabb]

I appreciate the input. I'm still not sure of the weight. I need to get a trailer with a GVR that is adequate, with tires that will carry the weight. I wonder if the travel-lift in the boat yard would have a scale that tells what the weight is?
Sandy was wondering where I am headed, but it is not anywhere exotic or romantic, at least not until I get the remaining maintenance issues [including, but not limited to, a new hatch, lifelines, rigging. waterpump, head,masthead light, the engine] resolved.
I bought the boat 6 1/2 years ago and sailed her to Green Turtle Cay in the Bahamas, where she stayed for 3 years. I went down 6 times a year for a sevral days and sailed her around Abaco. I didn't do any maintenace except varnishing and bottom painting. I had a lot of trouble keeping the Yanmar YSM-8 running in the Bahamas and never could find anyone who could fix it permanently, so I bought a 15 hp Mercury outboard and took her back to Florida to get all the repairs and upkeep done. I live in Colo. and I have been going down to Florida six 4-day trips every winter. This amount of time is not enough to get the boat to the point where I can take it back to Bahamas, or sell her. I am at a disadvantage being an absentee owner, and have spent $4000 with several boatyards and outside contractors over the years, trying to get the diesel running permanently. Also,even though I have her hauled out and put in dry storage every summer, I worry that a bad hurricane would wreck every thing in the yard I have her in [Manatee Bay], just because the land is so low and flat. So I think if I hauled her home I could spend much more time on her and get everything fixed. The deisel The Yanmar YSM-8 was recently removed by a mechanic, deemed to be not repairable, and now I have no engine! It always leaked oil. He took it out and dissasembled it. He says the main bearing is worn out, and the camshaft has wear, which caused the main seal to leak oil. He showed me the engine, all in pieces, in his shop and the camshaft was scored. I am not a deisel mechanic however. He wants $7500 to furnish and install a new 15 hp , 2-cylinder freshwater cooled Yanmar.
I have been told by the several boatyards that have worked on her, that Yanmar is no longer supporting the YS-8, parts are hard to find. and if I get this engine running another problem may come up and I will be back in the same situation, which would be bad if I was in the Bahamas.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, O Cape Dory Wise Men, who have slogged through headwinds and rough seas before me, spending countless dollars and hours on their dreams, and having a hell of a lot of fun at times.

[John Vigor]

I can't imagine towing a CD27 from Florida to Colorado just to work on her. That's one helluva long way. But it takes all types, and if you must do it, then what I can tell you is that the last couple of times I've had my CD27 hauled, the crane driver told me she weighed 9,000 pounds.

I have the bigger, heavier engine and a lot of gear on her, so I guess it's possible.

Good luck with the towing.

John V.

[smcnabb]

John Vigor-

I am going to proceed with the trailer order, based upon a weight of 9000# for the boat. I need to get more information from the trailer dealer, Tiki Watersports, before I actually place the order. They seen to have information from Magic Tilt about this model of Cape Dory which may help them select the correct trailer. I may add about 2000# to the required GVR to be safe.
This is my first experience with a message board or an on-line network, and I can already see that it will be a valuable resource for me. Min-Jee needed a lot of upkeep, as most 28 yr old boats do, and I have have been feeling my way along in the dark, trying to solve the problems which keep constantly coming up. For example, 2 of the opening ports leak, and I could not figure out for the life of me how to replace the gaskets,so I caulked the ports shut to just keep the water out, which was damaging the interior woodwork, but just last night I read that others have replaced their gaskets, and list where to buy the material, how to do it, etc!!!! Being able to communicate with others who have experienced similar problems and who have tried different solutions gives me faith that I can get her to a seaworthy condition. Frankly, I was getting further and further behind, and becoming discouraged. I know it would be easier to keep her in Florida as everything you need is available. Colorado is a dry state, with very few sailboats. It all comes down to time and money, as with so many things.
After I had just bought my second boat in 1983, a 20 ft Ensenada sloop,I saw a Typhoon and thought at the time "Now there is a real sailboat". I recovered from my buyer's remorse and never saw another Cape Dory for 20 years until I saw Min-Jee, and I bought her immediately.
Thanks for your help, and good luck with your boat.

[bill2]

Tho joining this party a little late I'd also ( iffen it was me anyway ) check with the trailer dealer about such things as trailer weights - ie:

10,000 and less ( regular drivers license should do it )

over 12,000 ( might just fall under Fedl DOT - which most states abide by - to have commercial license )

between 10K-12K ( maybe interpreted differently in different states - your state highway patrol may have different views about which license to have )

And as OJ already said - good brakes ( again many states - leastways PA - requires PA Inspection Station inspection/sticker )

Of course there's many more knowledgeable than I who will likely chime in.

Good Luck

[marka]

For the first time ever, Linda Jean is sitting in her cradle on a flat-bed equipment trailer in our fron lawn. She makes one hell-of-a lawn ornament let me tell you. I only live 4 miles fromn the marina so we could go slow when we hauled her home. A 3/4 ton pickup did the job fine.

I'm looking forward to taking my time with her for the spring pre-launch preps next year.

[Oswego John]

Mark,

I shall be in touch shortly. There is a new (to him) CD 27 owner who would like to pick your brain in re: upgrading his project boat.

PM or maybe a phone call, probably after Thanksgiving.

Gobble gobble
O J