Topping Lift Options

[Joe Myerson]

I've never been very happy with the topping lift on my 25D.

Because I often take a reef (or two) in my mainsail during the course of a day's sail, I find myself adjusting the topping lift at its cleat on the mast (between the external main halyard and the mainsail track). If I'm not careful, the extra line will sometimes come loose from around the cleat and catch in the track when I'm raising or lowering the main.

This has caused me to get lazy, frequently leaving the topping lift so that it bears the weight of the boom all the time, even though I know that the leech should be bearing that weight when the sail is hoisted or fully reefed.

Here's my question: Does it make sense to replace my line topping lift with a length of stainless-steel cable, adjustable only at the end of the boom?

Or, does it make sense to install a pulley system at the boom end of my existing topping lift, so I can adjust it either from the cleat or the boom?

Or, should I leave well enough alone?

(I didn't list the option of getting a rigid boom vang--but that's also a possibility.)

Any thoughts?

--Joe

[John Vigor]

Joe, I have always insisted on the topping lift being adjustable from the cockpit.

My topping lift runs from the end of the boom, up to the top of the mast, down the mast to a deck-level turning block, and aft to a cam-cleat on the aft end of the cabin-top.

I just have to lean forward to make an adjustment.

I can't tell you how convenient that is, especially when reefing the mainsail. I can angle the boom skywards so that the new clew of the reefed sail is easily pulled out along the boom without strain. When you ease the topping lift afterward, the foot of the sail is automatically tightened.

You can also spill wind from the mainsail in a squall by raising the end of the boom, even scandalize it by pulling it up parallel to the mast, I guess, if your mainsheet and boom vang are long enough.

If the topping lift is flopping around annoyingly, as sometimes happens, I can make easy and infinite adjustments to put it to sleep and get it just right.

John V.

[kerlandsen]

I am not a fan of the wire boom lift. It tends to chafe against the sail and just lead to problems in the long term.
I have moved to an exotic, spectra, boom lift. It tends to blow away from the sail and get into that annoying banging into the sail. It won't last forever, so I will have to replace it in, I am guessing 5-10 years. I keep an eye on it. Simple to make, with splices in the end and thimbles, hard part is installing it.

I also have it adjustable at the boom end with a 2:1, but I don't adjust it while putting in a reef, only while at the mooring and I want more headroom.

Kyle

[Joe Myerson]

John:

Thanks for reminding me about having a topping lift that's adjustable from the cockpit -- that was the arrangement I had on my catboat.

Installing a turning block at the base of the mast, and a cleat accessible from the cockpit would be a good winter project.

Kyle: I think you're right about the wire boom lift possibly chafing, although several CDers I know have such an arrangement.

--Joe

[Steve Laume]

I have a spliced line running to the mast head with the adjustment on the end of the boom.

This system is pretty worthless in adjusting the topping lift while reefing. I have all my other lines at the mast so it would be much better to either run a line forward on the boom or have a traditiohnal topping lift run down from the mast head.

I never considered running the line along the boom before. This would reduce clutter and windage on the mast while still making adjustments possible at the mast base.



That cleat on the end of the boom is begging me to get into trouble some day trying to adjust it. I suppose this is one more thing for the list this winter as the spliced line for the topping lift looks pretty old anyway, Steve.

[Oswego John]

Hi Joe,

Call me lazy if you will.

The smaller CDs came from the factory equipped with a "pig tail" wire topping lift that is crimped to the aft stay. The lower end of the pig tail clips onto the end of the boom. Let's face it, it is a cheap way out for providing a boom support when not sailing.

Using the pig tail does the job. However, it remains in a fixed position, it is not adjustable. Many boatowners provide a more elaborate topping lift system. To each, his own. There are no hard and fast rules concerning this area.

Yes, I suppose that using a pigtail support could chafe a mainsail under certain conditions. To prevent any possible chafe, I wind the unused pigtail several times around the stay and snap the spring clip around the stay to prevent it from flying.

So far, it has worked for me. (Knock on wood)

O J

[Joe Myerson]

Hi OJ,

I've had boats with "pig tails" before, and they work very well as a way to hold the boom when not sailing. However, I wouldn't want to use such an arrangement while trying to reef under way.

What I'm looking for is a way to adjust the tension on the boom when sailing. That's why I'm so intrigued with John V's suggestion.

--Joe

[Leonard Lookner]

The reason that I inquired about rigid boom vangs was as a way to resolve this very problem. Holding the boom up with out using the topping lift. I was trying to find out other owners that might have used rigid boom vangs.

[John Vigor]

Joe:

Interestingly, the only drawback to my topping lift arrangement is that it sometimes hums even in a fairly light breeze. When I'm at anchor, with the boom topped up a bit for cockpit headroom, and the mainsheet hauled taut to stop the boom swinging from side to side, the topping lift is quite tight.

On one long trip I would often get woken at night by a noise that sounded like a muffled engine in the distance. I pondered it mightily, for it didn't seem to be fading away, as it should be on a moving ship. I wondered if it was coming under water and through the hull, the magnified sound of an engine; or perhaps some generator ashore. But I figured it was against the odds that there would always be a generator in the different anchorages I found every night.

And even stranger was the fact that the hum wasn't present everywhere in the boat at the same time. As I moved from my berth in the forepeak the sound would disappear, only to re-appear in the cockpit.

And then, one day, I happened to put my hand on the topping lift just above the boom, and felt it vibrating, shivering in the breeze. I slackened off the mainsheet, which in turn slacked the topping lift, and the noise disappeared.

From then on in, I made sure the topping lift wasn't too tight and acting like some great bass string, before I hit my bunk. Voila. No more "engine" noise.

Cheers,

John V.

[J D]

I have been a bit unhappy with my topping lift also and have been looking at options. My slip neighbour who sails a sprite has a similar topping lift arrangement except his adjustment is done with a cam cleat that secures the end of his lift after it runs through a block on his boom. I think I will try that.

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

Topping lifts! They can be a real pain but are really worth their weight when you finally work out the kinks.

I do not favor a wire lift for reasons already mentioned. When I started out I used Hal Roths method as described in one of his books. That is go from the end of the boom up to a block at the masthead then down to deck level but aft near the stern rail. I put a 3:1 tackle on the tail end for extra leverage but later changed this to 2:1. I also used a cam-cleat type block so I didn"t have to cleat the line.

According to Hal the idea here is to use a light nylon line. Since the line goes from the end of the boom to the masthead then down somewhere near deck level it is quite long. Therefore it has a lot of stretch. The benefit being that the topping lift can be tensioned all the time and will not flop around. Yet the main sheet can easily stretch the nylon line when trimming the main.

Initially I found this to work OK. But after time, when I was sailing mostly downwind, and I needed to gybe that the boom would rise thus slacking the topping lift enough to catch the end of the boom when it crossed the boat. This is a real fire drill and tough to unhook the boomend from the topping lift.

Since I reefed the main at the mast I found it very inconvient to first loosen the mainsheet then tighten the topping lift in the cockpit then go forward to reef the sail. So I changed the system a bit.

I tied the running end of the topping lift to the top rail of the stern pullpit and kept the line up the mast and back down to the boom end. I used a small 2:1 tackle from the end of the topping lift to the end of the boom with the tail lead forward along the port side of the boom (along with the outhaul) to a cleat.

I found this worked best for me and I will be using almost the exact same system on Sunshine 'cept the outhaul and lift are inside the boom. They lead forward to exit just aft the gooseneck from the bottom of the boom. I'll handle the tails with a small winch mounted to the aft face of the mast.

The system lasted for the entire trip and is still on Fenix far's I know. BTW the up and down line was 1/4" three strand nylon from home depot, it lasted the whole time with no problem and is still there I think. Probably go to 3/8" on the bigger boat.

Take care,
Fred

[Steve Laume]

John, do all of your reefing lines and halyards also come to the cockpit?

JD, I have the boom end arrangement as I previously stated. It is fine for setting the boom height as rest but worthless for reefing.

If this line were brought forward to the mast it would work fine. I also do not think I would trust a cam cleat in this situation. I have cams on my main and staysail sheets but they are always under tension with turns on a winch. I have one on my roller furler too but back it up with a couple of half hitches when not in use.

It would seem like having your reef lines, main halyard and topping lift all on the starboard side at the mast would be a great set up for those of us that do not run lines aft.

I might need some little fairleads on the boom to keep everything tidy. The topping lift shouldn't be a problem as there should not be any slack when the main is down and I am making my lame attempt to do a reasonable job of flaking it. I never know exactly what to do with all the excess reefing line, Steve.

[Joe Myerson]

This is proving to be a very useful thread, if I do say so myself.

From John V., I might install a turning block at the base of the mast and run the line to the cockpit -- perhaps taking Steve's advice and using a standard cleat to secure it.

From Fred and Steve, I'll probably also install a small 2:1 tackle at the boom, so I can adjust the boom comfortably while at anchor or on the mooring.

I'm not sure if I'll go with three-strand or double-braided line -- I'm leaning toward double-braid, even though my beloved catboat used three-strand nylon. (I might reconsider: The catboat had a much heavier sail and boom than my 25D, and three-stranded line worked just fine).

Any other thoughts?

Thanks again,

--Joe

[John Vigor]

John, do all of your reefing lines and halyards also come to the cockpit?
Steve.

No Steve, the only mainsail lines that come back to the cockpit are the topping lift and the boom vang. Those, and the mainsheet, are the only ones I need to control the height of the boom and the tension of the topping lift at any stage of sailing.

When reefing I first ease off the mainsheet and the boom vang and haul in on the topping lift--the latter two on side-by-side cam cleats at the end of the cabintop. All this takes but a few seconds and no movement from the cockpit.

With the boom cocked up in the air 15 degrees or so, I go forward to the mast and reef as usual, the advantage being how easily I can haul the new clew out toward the end of the boom, and get it really tight when I arrive back in the cockpit and ease off the topping lift again to lower the boom.

And Joe, you do not need a double purchase to raise the boom with your topping lift. If you have the upper body strength to raise a full beer mug to your lips, you can raise the boom of a 25D (or a 27) without a complicated purchase, I promise you.

Cheers,

John V.

[Carter Brey]

I agree with John Vigor: the best way to rig your topping lift is to run it up to a masthead block, down to a turning block and aft via an organizer. Mine terminates at a cam cleat.

I also have all my other control lines, including retractable lazy jacks and reefing lines, running aft to the cockpit. It means reefing is done from one body position, very quickly. The winches for the reefing lines are on the cabin top.

Each control line, although made fast with either a cam cleat or rope clutch, has a corresponding and size-appropriate cleat available, thru-bolted to the cabin bulkhead face. If there is a rope clutch or cam cleat failure, I can still make the line fast. The cleats double as line hangers to keep things shipshape while underway.

A topping lift rigged this way also doubles as a spare halyard. For this reason I have it attached at the boom end by a non-swivel snap shackle. This also means that if the flopping around underway annoys me, I can detach it and bring it up to the mast, although I've never done this.

I experienced the same "humming" phenomenon as John; inside Delphine's cabin at night it made a disconcerting keening sound like the soundtrack to a cheap 1950's science fiction movie. I expected the robot Gort from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" to make his momentary appearance and wondered if he would observe the formality of being piped aboard before vaporizing me. Slackening the mainsheet does take care of the problem, as does fastening an adjustable webbing strap around both topping lift and backstay

Cordially,
Carter Brey
Sabre 28 MkII "Delphine"
City Island, NY