The cover is off, the tanks are cleaned, the sails mended, rigging inspected and engine tuned. So now the big question - What should I do for bottom paint?
The previous owner of my CD330 had applied standard hard antifouling (not copolymer, ablative or teflon based) paint to the hull two seasons ago. The bottom was in good shape last year so I was able to launch with just a power washing. Some additional paint has chipped off so now I am stuck with a tough decision.
One part of me thinks I should remove all the old paint (unknown number of layers) and begin with a barrier coat. I would appreciate comments or suggestions on :
“Peal Away” from West Marine to remove the old paint
“Interprotect 2000” barrier coating from Interlux
The other part of me says to just ruff up the existing paint and add a coat of quality primer to ensure adhesion. For this I an considering Interlux Primocon (also known as 360R)
The final step would be 2 coat of quality copolymer paint such as Interlux Micron CSC. I prefer the copolymer over the ablatives since copolymers retain their antifouling characteristics from season to season as long as the dry film thickness is sufficient. Ablative paints produce a layer of oxidation which prevents antifouling if they are hauled out of the water for longer than 30 days.
The final consideration is cost. If I go all the way down to the barrier coat:
Barrier layer (4 coats) $230
“Peal Away” $220
Primocon $ 85
Micron CSC (2 coats) $290
Total $825
If I just sand the existing and go with primer and Micron CSC I will save $450 – but is this money well saved?
In either case the Captain receives the customary hourly labor wage of $0.00.
I would appreciate any suggestions / comments / thought on how best to proceed. I have no experience with Barrier systems or ablative paint materials so I am relying upon your guidance.
Thanks,
Chris Reinke
PS – In any event I will be back in the water on May 1st.
chris.reinke@transamerica.com
What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Rich
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
I'm grappling with the same issue, I've been using a single season paint but I've got so much flaking going on that I'm thinking about taking it all off and trying a multi-season. A very recent issue
Practical Sailor reported on a couple of dozen bottom paints they've been testing over that last two seasons in both salt and fresh water. There are some very different performance results with some of the paints. For example, some provide excellent results in salt and only fair in fresh. It's worth reading if you're getting ready to make a big investment.
rpassmore42@hotmail.com
Practical Sailor reported on a couple of dozen bottom paints they've been testing over that last two seasons in both salt and fresh water. There are some very different performance results with some of the paints. For example, some provide excellent results in salt and only fair in fresh. It's worth reading if you're getting ready to make a big investment.
rpassmore42@hotmail.com
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Duncan Maio
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
Several users on this board indicated in an earlier string that we intend to merely touch up last year's coat and do the high-wear areas (waterline, leading edge of keel, etc.).
Three seasons ago, I was in the same boat you are. I simply gave a light sanding to the existing blue paint, and then one coat of bottom paint in a different color(black). The next two seasons, I put on one coat of (blue) Interlux ACT, with no primer and only scraping/sanding the bare spots.
I looked at the bottom this morning, and this year's bare spots are in new areas (I think) and the few areas of flaking paint indicate that there is a good thickness on either side of the black layer.
All of this is a long way of saying that minimal preparation seems to be enough for modern paints, and one coat seems to be plenty, at least in New England. I have done much less than recommended, with good results except for peeling that happens all the way at the gelcoat (and almost exclusively at the end of the season, when she is hauled and powerwashed).
If it were my boat, I would give it a quick scuff (or just powerwash) and one coat of ablative copolymer, like ACT or Micron.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
BTW, I have been using ACT and plan to just powerwash and touch up after 5 months on the hard - I will report on the effects of oxidation in November.
dmaio@meganet.net
Three seasons ago, I was in the same boat you are. I simply gave a light sanding to the existing blue paint, and then one coat of bottom paint in a different color(black). The next two seasons, I put on one coat of (blue) Interlux ACT, with no primer and only scraping/sanding the bare spots.
I looked at the bottom this morning, and this year's bare spots are in new areas (I think) and the few areas of flaking paint indicate that there is a good thickness on either side of the black layer.
All of this is a long way of saying that minimal preparation seems to be enough for modern paints, and one coat seems to be plenty, at least in New England. I have done much less than recommended, with good results except for peeling that happens all the way at the gelcoat (and almost exclusively at the end of the season, when she is hauled and powerwashed).
If it were my boat, I would give it a quick scuff (or just powerwash) and one coat of ablative copolymer, like ACT or Micron.
Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
BTW, I have been using ACT and plan to just powerwash and touch up after 5 months on the hard - I will report on the effects of oxidation in November.
dmaio@meganet.net
-
Bill Goldsmith
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
Chris:
A couple of observations.
First of all applying a barrier coat is an exhausting operation whatever system you use (I used West System Epoxy) and you should have at least one assistant.
I have never used Peel-away so I cannot comment but I've heard it's a quite effective alternative to sanding and scraping.
As to whether or not to do a barrier coat--you will get different opinions on this. Consider that I did it because an initial inspection of the hull indicated some gouges, pinholes and chipouts below the waterline that had been painted over in the past. No blisters, though. I took all the paint off the hard way (sanding and scraping), did some epoxy fairing and filling, and applied a seven-coat barrier coat to really seal up that hull. Came out beautifully!!
If your hull is in good shape, you do not see any blisters, and you don't really want to do the "full monty" (or full money) now, then don't. You can rough up the old paint and put a couple of copolymer coats on right over the hard coats. Primer may help, but I think Micron CSC can be applied directly. The new coats will not contribute to future buildup. If you use a contrasting color, you will be able to use the old hard paint as a "marker" that will indicate areas of wear on the outer layers.
I can tell you from experience that with Micron CSC my boat came out last fall clean as a whistle, and our boats are moored pretty close.
The conventional wisdom is that if you're definitely taking off all the old paint--take that opportunity to get the added protection of the barrier coat. However if you don't have any compelling reason to take off all the old now, use a good multiseason copolymer for a couple of years to prevent future buildup while you decide if you really want to go back to the gel.
Question for you--last year, you relaunched without new paint? IS it possible there's a multiseason paint on there already?
Bill Goldsmith
goldy@bestweb.net
A couple of observations.
First of all applying a barrier coat is an exhausting operation whatever system you use (I used West System Epoxy) and you should have at least one assistant.
I have never used Peel-away so I cannot comment but I've heard it's a quite effective alternative to sanding and scraping.
As to whether or not to do a barrier coat--you will get different opinions on this. Consider that I did it because an initial inspection of the hull indicated some gouges, pinholes and chipouts below the waterline that had been painted over in the past. No blisters, though. I took all the paint off the hard way (sanding and scraping), did some epoxy fairing and filling, and applied a seven-coat barrier coat to really seal up that hull. Came out beautifully!!
If your hull is in good shape, you do not see any blisters, and you don't really want to do the "full monty" (or full money) now, then don't. You can rough up the old paint and put a couple of copolymer coats on right over the hard coats. Primer may help, but I think Micron CSC can be applied directly. The new coats will not contribute to future buildup. If you use a contrasting color, you will be able to use the old hard paint as a "marker" that will indicate areas of wear on the outer layers.
I can tell you from experience that with Micron CSC my boat came out last fall clean as a whistle, and our boats are moored pretty close.
The conventional wisdom is that if you're definitely taking off all the old paint--take that opportunity to get the added protection of the barrier coat. However if you don't have any compelling reason to take off all the old now, use a good multiseason copolymer for a couple of years to prevent future buildup while you decide if you really want to go back to the gel.
Question for you--last year, you relaunched without new paint? IS it possible there's a multiseason paint on there already?
Bill Goldsmith
Chris Reinke (CD330 Innisfail) wrote: The cover is off, the tanks are cleaned, the sails mended, rigging inspected and engine tuned. So now the big question - What should I do for bottom paint?
The previous owner of my CD330 had applied standard hard antifouling (not copolymer, ablative or teflon based) paint to the hull two seasons ago. The bottom was in good shape last year so I was able to launch with just a power washing. Some additional paint has chipped off so now I am stuck with a tough decision.
One part of me thinks I should remove all the old paint (unknown number of layers) and begin with a barrier coat. I would appreciate comments or suggestions on :
“Peal Away” from West Marine to remove the old paint
“Interprotect 2000” barrier coating from Interlux
The other part of me says to just ruff up the existing paint and add a coat of quality primer to ensure adhesion. For this I an considering Interlux Primocon (also known as 360R)
The final step would be 2 coat of quality copolymer paint such as Interlux Micron CSC. I prefer the copolymer over the ablatives since copolymers retain their antifouling characteristics from season to season as long as the dry film thickness is sufficient. Ablative paints produce a layer of oxidation which prevents antifouling if they are hauled out of the water for longer than 30 days.
The final consideration is cost. If I go all the way down to the barrier coat:
Barrier layer (4 coats) $230
“Peal Away” $220
Primocon $ 85
Micron CSC (2 coats) $290
Total $825
If I just sand the existing and go with primer and Micron CSC I will save $450 – but is this money well saved?
In either case the Captain receives the customary hourly labor wage of $0.00.
I would appreciate any suggestions / comments / thought on how best to proceed. I have no experience with Barrier systems or ablative paint materials so I am relying upon your guidance.
Thanks,
Chris Reinke
PS – In any event I will be back in the water on May 1st.
goldy@bestweb.net
-
Bob Luby
Bottom Painting.
Chris: Do you want to keep the boat? If not, scuffing the paint you have and applying an ablative seems to be the way to go, particularly if the paint you have is not flaking a lot.
If you do intend to keep the boat, and are willing to make the investment, use Peel-Away, ( or a cheaper version West Marine may have ) and do the barrier coat, followed by 3 coats of Micron, the first coat of Micron should contrast with the upper 2.
Do the barrier coat while you have the chance, I figure.
A note on Peel-Away - Don't let it dry on varnish; the result can be difficult to scrape off.
I've done this on LI Sound, and I get by with 1-2 qts per year touchup on my 25D, with minimal scraping of bare spots.
After you do this, Bottom prep will take one weekend.
If you do intend to keep the boat, and are willing to make the investment, use Peel-Away, ( or a cheaper version West Marine may have ) and do the barrier coat, followed by 3 coats of Micron, the first coat of Micron should contrast with the upper 2.
Do the barrier coat while you have the chance, I figure.
A note on Peel-Away - Don't let it dry on varnish; the result can be difficult to scrape off.
I've done this on LI Sound, and I get by with 1-2 qts per year touchup on my 25D, with minimal scraping of bare spots.
After you do this, Bottom prep will take one weekend.
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Ryan Turner
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
If you decide to use Peel-Away first check out a wood workers supply house. I've heard that Peel-Away is marketing the same product to them at a substantial discount over marine prices.
rturnertec@aol.com
rturnertec@aol.com
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Dana
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
There is no doubt that I am, personally, one for minimum work and $.
But to get there I would recommend the following:
1. Use a multi season paint CSC or better yet CSC Extra.
2. If you are taking off the old paint...DO NOT MISS the opportunity
of applying a barrier coat...I suggest the WEST system.
3. I know personally that two coats of CSC has lasted me 3 1/2 years
in the water.
With the above suggestions, you should avoid any future blisters, paint build up, and in the future both save money and labor....
darenius@aol.com
But to get there I would recommend the following:
1. Use a multi season paint CSC or better yet CSC Extra.
2. If you are taking off the old paint...DO NOT MISS the opportunity
of applying a barrier coat...I suggest the WEST system.
3. I know personally that two coats of CSC has lasted me 3 1/2 years
in the water.
With the above suggestions, you should avoid any future blisters, paint build up, and in the future both save money and labor....
Chris Reinke (CD330 Innisfail) wrote: The cover is off, the tanks are cleaned, the sails mended, rigging inspected and engine tuned. So now the big question - What should I do for bottom paint?
The previous owner of my CD330 had applied standard hard antifouling (not copolymer, ablative or teflon based) paint to the hull two seasons ago. The bottom was in good shape last year so I was able to launch with just a power washing. Some additional paint has chipped off so now I am stuck with a tough decision.
One part of me thinks I should remove all the old paint (unknown number of layers) and begin with a barrier coat. I would appreciate comments or suggestions on :
“Peal Away” from West Marine to remove the old paint
“Interprotect 2000” barrier coating from Interlux
The other part of me says to just ruff up the existing paint and add a coat of quality primer to ensure adhesion. For this I an considering Interlux Primocon (also known as 360R)
The final step would be 2 coat of quality copolymer paint such as Interlux Micron CSC. I prefer the copolymer over the ablatives since copolymers retain their antifouling characteristics from season to season as long as the dry film thickness is sufficient. Ablative paints produce a layer of oxidation which prevents antifouling if they are hauled out of the water for longer than 30 days.
The final consideration is cost. If I go all the way down to the barrier coat:
Barrier layer (4 coats) $230
“Peal Away” $220
Primocon $ 85
Micron CSC (2 coats) $290
Total $825
If I just sand the existing and go with primer and Micron CSC I will save $450 – but is this money well saved?
In either case the Captain receives the customary hourly labor wage of $0.00.
I would appreciate any suggestions / comments / thought on how best to proceed. I have no experience with Barrier systems or ablative paint materials so I am relying upon your guidance.
Thanks,
Chris Reinke
PS – In any event I will be back in the water on May 1st.
darenius@aol.com
-
Chris Reinke
Re: Peel Away Products
Ryan - You and I certainly think alike when it comes to avoiding the terms "Marine" in a product name since it usually includes a price increase. In this case I might be willing to pay a bit of a premium for peace of mind. You are correct in identifying additional suppliers of "Peel Away" products but I would caution the use of anything other than their Marine or Marine II products. The manufacturer (Dumond Chemical www.peelaway.com) offers almost a dozen different types of peel away strippers. Each type is slightly different based upon the types of paint and underlying surfaces. The marine product is designed to be safe on fiberglass and the gel coat. The product often sold in wood/paint stores is Peel Away I - which is alkaline, contains lime, and "may" damage fiberglass. Being someone who does not have a chemical engineering degree, and have no intention of self schooling myself, I am going to follow the manufacturers suggestions. If someone else has an alternative product I would love to hear about it.
FYI - I contacted Dumond and was told of their new marine II product which will remove the paint and not harm an epoxy barrier coat.
FYI - I contacted Dumond and was told of their new marine II product which will remove the paint and not harm an epoxy barrier coat.
Ryan Turner wrote: If you decide to use Peel-Away first check out a wood workers supply house. I've heard that Peel-Away is marketing the same product to them at a substantial discount over marine prices.
-
Chris Holme
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
As I am a new CD owner I bow to those with more experience. My only comment would be to make sure that the hull is not holding moisture if you decide to go with the barrier coat.
My 76 CD 28's bottom is still damp after 5 mos. on the hard and my surveyor thought that if I applied a barrier coat that it may start bubbling up in a few years.
When she was hauled in the fall she had 2 blisters (Approx. 3" dia) and a number of spots that were oozing that dark stuff
Good Luck, Chris
chris@annapolis.net
My 76 CD 28's bottom is still damp after 5 mos. on the hard and my surveyor thought that if I applied a barrier coat that it may start bubbling up in a few years.
When she was hauled in the fall she had 2 blisters (Approx. 3" dia) and a number of spots that were oozing that dark stuff
Good Luck, Chris
chris@annapolis.net
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John s
Re: What is your secret to Bottom Preparation?
I used "peel away" on hard bottom paint this year, just want to caution you to apply a thick coat ( as indicated on instructions), or you may be doing it again. Look at the small print about what it will and won't do.
sidney777@hotmail.com
Chris Reinke (CD330 Innisfail) wrote: “Peal Away” from West Marine to remove the old paint
“Interprotect 2000” barrier coating from Interlux
The other part of me says to just ruff up the existing paint and add a coat of quality primer to ensure adhesion. For this I an considering Interlux Primocon (also known as 360R)
The final step would be 2 coat of quality copolymer paint such as Interlux Micron CSC. I prefer the copolymer over the ablatives since copolymers retain their antifouling characteristics from season to season as long as the dry film thickness is sufficient. Ablative paints produce a layer of oxidation which prevents antifouling if they are hauled out of the water for longer than 30 days.
The final consideration is cost. If I go all the way down to the barrier coat:
Barrier layer (4 coats) $230
“Peal Away” $220
Primocon $ 85
Micron CSC (2 coats) $290
Total $825
If I just sand the existing and go with primer and Micron CSC I will save $450 – but is this money well saved?
In either case the Captain receives the customary hourly labor wage of $0.00.
I would appreciate any suggestions / comments / thought on how best to proceed. I have no experience with Barrier systems or ablative paint materials so I am relying upon your guidance.
Thanks,
Chris Reinke
PS – In any event I will be back in the water on May 1st.
sidney777@hotmail.com